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Masters Degrees and Major Airline Employment

Discussion in 'Airline Pilots' started by zVo, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. Dugie8

    Dugie8 Well-Known Member

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    I did my Masters in IT through the university of Phoenix. I learned way more from my fellow classmates; most of whom had decades of IT experience.

    I’ll take that over classroom theory/indoctrination any day and twice on Sunday.


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  2. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

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    Not saying all online masters are crap. Some are legit. But a lot of them are just shady, and nothing more than a pay to print operation.

    A quick google of my own state shows this available for online degrees:

    https://graduatedegrees.online.njit...MI2b-esLjz1wIVFoGzCh2zfgaMEAAYAyAAEgKsTfD_BwE

    Going by website design alone, the thing looks shady as hell.
     
  3. z987k

    z987k TeamANC

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    Yet they look to be regionally accredited. So.....
     
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  4. ppragman

    ppragman Direct BOOKE

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    I don't. Times have changed - and for the better. ASU will let you do an ABET accredited undergrad in engineering online - they send you the lab materials and you set up a web cam to monitor you to make sure you're not cheating.

    I totally think it'd be reasonable to do a masters in a hard science online if you had the lab equipment (if it's even necessary for your chosen field of study). Don't see it being problematic at all.

    For something like math or comp sci, it should be the standard, but it's not.
     
  5. Lawman

    Lawman Well-Known Member

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    That’s the problem Soku was alluding too that’s infected the military progress structure.

    The trend hit the military a couple decades ago and full stride in the last one. You don’t need a masters to get there, you need one to “stand out” from your peers and progress.... So get a masters... any masters at all.

    There is no incentive to do a hard program because it’s not about the program it’s about demonstrating you suffered and “progressed.” Doing something actually difficult and expanding may help you in other values but in the values that are used in your actual job it’s basically worthless and actually detracting from your actual job (being an aviator/Officer/tactician/etc).

    The reason it gets that way is when the people reach leadership and attempt to take the path they followed and make it the deemed most desirable to be emulated in the new caste. It’s possible in any industry and I would urge great caution amongst yours because us over here where it already took in roots.... you can’t kill it even when the top guys try.


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  6. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

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    What a joke compared to a real engineering program, you know, where you actually had to be there and show up on time. Plus, not everyone can afford an industry grade wind tunnel in their own home, so there’s that...

    Engineering degrees online are a joke. Perhaps the first two years, yes, it’s mostly gen ed, basic physics, math, etc. but the last two years are specialized and you really have to have a true classroom and lab setting. Plus, engineering is a group work/think/solve. You’re only doing yourself an injustice doing it online.
     
  7. ppragman

    ppragman Direct BOOKE

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    So you're much more qualified to comment on this than I am, but I sometimes worry that the "inability to fail and still progress" cancer that is/was all over the civilian world during the recession has infected the military. When I read about guys getting drummed out for legit mistakes and accidents, I worry that we may be promoting people who've never actually failed at anything substantial in their lives.

    Failure is important to learning how to be good at what you're doing - and yeah obviously massive failure for abject incompetence can't be tolerated, but still it's been my experience that the worst (and least desirable people to work for) had never actually failed or forced real adversity where their consequences had real life consequences beyond themselves.

    Chester Nimitz ran a destroyer aground - what the heck would have happened to him today?
     
  8. ppragman

    ppragman Direct BOOKE

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    It's ABET.

    You must be one of those guys who got really mad about that dude in oregon.
     
  9. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

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    Accreditation? To me an online program saying “we’re accredited and approved!” is like a regional airline saying they are safe and don’t cut corners because they have an ASAP program and no fatalities so far.

    Now you’re truly talking what I call “the pilot” way. No two craps given about quality or caliber. Just accreditation because that’s what Delta and Fedex truly require, and check the box in doing so. I know many real life workin engineers, none of them got their 4 yr degree online.

    And what’s the guy in Oregon? Does he own a college degree mill that prints upon payment?
     
  10. ppragman

    ppragman Direct BOOKE

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    You ever done any online courses?

    This is the guy in Oregon:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...50d0b15f83b_story.html?utm_term=.09a35af6502c
     
  11. Cherokee_Cruiser

    Cherokee_Cruiser Well-Known Member

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    No I haven't. But as pilots, I can see how that's pretty much a necessity if you didn't get a traditional college degree between 18-22.


    That guy should have just accepted a ticket. Obviously it sounds like he's getting the short end of the stick because he's trying to call out a system based on his experience and qualifications. If he moved here, he should have just ponied up and gotten the appropriate qualifications and license to be an engineer.
     
  12. ppragman

    ppragman Direct BOOKE

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    So I've taken about 50-50 on campus and online in my educational career. Frankly, I've found the online classes ive taken (to include upper division math, but no engineering curriculum so I could be wrong about ASU) to be much more convenient but 100 times more difficult. You basically have to teach yourself unless you get a really awesome teacher, and even then because interaction is limited I spend a ton of time trying to get a more intuitive understanding from various online resources.

    I'm taking a mathematical modeling course this semester that's basically like a continuation of differential equations from the summer, with some discrete math stuff - this class is a blast, and the group projects are more like "work" from the real world - we collaborate with a Git repository of LaTex documents, excel spreadsheets, a forum, and overleaf.

    I took a very similar course about 10 years ago when I was going to school for my first BS and flying full time. I got good grades in that class on campus but didn't learn a freaking thing.

    I'm considering doing a masters now (if I can afford it with the new tax plan) and am contemplating doing courses in person for a MS in some engineering or comp sci curriculum (depending on where I get accepted) or online in applied mathematics. Personally, I'd rather do the engineering in person, but I'll be satisfied either way. Personally I've found pretty much all my online courses to be remarkably rigorous - and honestly, the general education courses and humanities courses I've taken online have been 10x more challenging than the ones I've had to do in person.
     
  13. Lawman

    Lawman Well-Known Member

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    The zero defect mindset is still very alive and well. It’s not unique to the military, but our up or out model of progression definitely fosters its continued and expanding existence. Some of it can also be blamed on the extremely short development process and review time leaders have. In your 19 months as a platoon leader you compete with 5 - 12 other peers... you F up something and they don’t. Regardless of magnitude you are the guy that everybody hates, like the kicker that misses the wining field goal when the entire offense has underperformed the whole game. You don’t get that time back. There is no “let’s keep him here and develop him.” You will go forward with a red when everybody else has green and across the board that may be the reason you find yourself out whenever the next review comes up.

    It’s mistakenly called a meritocracy, but without some vital components or placing the wrong priorities to really be one. The other big part is the never make your boss look bad to his boss attitude, which is why something like an accident can still be career ending when it wasn’t even truly preventable. You got X number DUIs in a month in your command... you only had 9 safety briefings instead of 10... obvious failure in leadership (when really you’re being punished so they can get the bigger boss off their back).

    It is one of a dozen traits of demonstrated counterproductively in what our real role is and how we should yearn to achieve it.


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  14. ppragman

    ppragman Direct BOOKE

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    Ick.

    One of the best pilot's ever met - literally wears the airplane, flies instruments better than Billy Mitchel, smoother than the autopilot, has over 20,000hrs had an absolutely absurdly terrible early career.

    He was drummed out of flying for the airforce for screwing off on their equipment. He literally had no choice but to go up to Alaska, and only a few places would look at him. He had an accident he survived (that changed a lot of his mindset) that was the result of him being a bit of a cowboy.

    Fast-forward 25 years, he is literally pushing for SMS in tiny bush carriers, trying to build real reliable training programs, and working for one of the largest companies in the world in their flight department. By his own admission he was a total wild man early on, and he's now literally the most professional and skilled aviator I've ever had the privilege of working with. Absolutely fantastic dude to share a cockpit with too - mentor but not a right-seat captain.

    It would be great if there were 10 more guys like him - but even if he wanted to, I don't think he could go to a major - even to this day.
     
  15. trafficinsight

    trafficinsight Well-Known Member

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    Bought a ham with mine this year, got together with the roomies and made a nice dinner.

    12 bucks is 12 bucks!

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  16. JordanD

    JordanD Sizeable Member

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    "Play the game, but only exactly this way and in this amount of time or you're obviously a horrible candidate."
     
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  17. Cloud Surfer

    Cloud Surfer All Roads lead to Trantor

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    Why didn't they just gift us with $12.... It would have been more than the 1% pay raise accrual throughout the entire year.
     
  18. trafficinsight

    trafficinsight Well-Known Member

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    I just rolled my eyes too hard, I got dizzy and fell over.

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  19. JordanD

    JordanD Sizeable Member

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    I do that when I see my paychecks.
    #breakityoubuyit
     
  20. Richman

    Richman Well-Known Member

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    Not really. You'll be answering the phone in a call center somewhere if you're lucky.

    Better to have a some welding certs, the ability to run commercial wiring or lay tile.

    The Master's thing always makes me chuckle. The only Masters/PHDs that are worth anything are the one's they give out wilth full tuition waivers and take 3/7 years full time.
     
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