Major airlines say war will widen losses

pilot602

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WASHINGTON (AP) -- The largest U.S. airlines will ask Congress to suspend $9 billion in annual taxes and extend war-risk insurance to alleviate the potentially crippling impact of a war in Iraq, the Air Transport Association outlined in a report released Tuesday.

If the worst happens -- a major terrorist attack occurs when war breaks out -- the biggest airlines could collapse, the industry association said.

The most likely scenario is a war in which passenger traffic falls more sharply than in the 1991 Gulf conflict, according to the report. In that case, airlines would lose $10.7 billion, nearly 10 percent of daily flights would be canceled and 70,000 airline jobs would be cut.

"We're in a crisis," said James May, the association's president. He said the airlines weren't asking for a bailout, but for help in withstanding the consequences of war.

A relatively short conflict like the first Gulf War would cause $7.6 billion in losses, the report said.

The report's scenarios were based on recent bookings, data from the last war and assumptions about the economy and passenger behavior.

The government's decision to raise the nation's terror alert status to orange last month produced a 20 percent decline in advance bookings despite fares that are at 15-year lows, according to the association, which represents the largest air carriers. The alert has since been lowered to yellow.

A terrorist attack similar in scope to September 11, 2001, coupled with war, could lead to 100,000 more job cuts and elimination of 3,800 daily flights, many to small and medium communities. That could cost the airlines $13 billion, the report said.

"The mere prospect of war with Iraq has already further weakened this industry, which is literally struggling to survive," the report said.

The first Gulf War led to the liquidation of Eastern, Pan American, Midway and Markair airlines, the association said. Now, two of the nation's largest airlines are in bankruptcy -- United Air Lines and US Airways -- and all others except Southwest Airlines are losing money.

The airlines want a holiday from six taxes they pay into a trust fund, beginning with the start of the war and ending one year after it ends. They also want the government to pay for security improvements at airports, on grounds they are a matter of national defense.

The taxes include user fees on cargo and passengers, a $2.50-per-passenger security surcharge and a 4.3-cent-a-gallon jet fuel tax.

Congress stepped in after the September 11 attacks, granting airlines $5 billion in cash and $10 billion in loan guarantees to offset losses from four days of groundings and passengers' reluctance to fly. The Federal Aviation Administration also issued war risk insurance -- which the airlines want extended -- after private insurance became too expensive.

Earlier this year, lawmakers and the Bush administration expressed reluctance to grant further relief to the airline industry, saying market forces should be allowed to work.

Major airlines lost $7.7 billion in 2001 and more than $10 billion in 2002. The airlines blamed security requirements for $4.1 billion of that loss, including indirect costs such as background checks, security equipment, ramp security and aircraft inspections, as well as direct payments to the federal government through the $2.50 passenger tax and assessments for security.

Since the September 11 attacks, major airlines have cut 100,000 jobs, slashed in-flight food service, hedged fuel costs, closed reservation centers, installed automatic check-in kiosks and changed flight schedules at hubs to use planes more efficiently.


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braidkid

New Member
Proof we must start this war soon, get it behind us and stop appeasing the weak United Nations.
Just my opinion...
 

pilot602

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If we go to war the airlines won't be the only thing hurting and collapsing. Gas is already $2.10 a gallon down the street from me. People are loosing their jobs. The Federal government is at it's absolute spending limit and the nation is $300-some-odd billion in debt. War will only make it worse, not better.

The only war that has helped our economy was WWII. Every other war has drained us. This one will be no exception.
 

braidkid

New Member
You might be right Pilot602, but this war just might save a nuclear/biological/chemical bomb being planted in your backyard!!!
 

pilot602

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this war just might save a nuclear/biological/chemical bomb being planted in your backyard!!!

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No, this war very well may instigate that - in the form of more 9/11 type deals.

However, a war with N. Korea would/could prevent that.

Or a war/closer inspection of IRAN would/could do that.

All SH/Iraq has is a remotely controlled aircraft with a range a few hundred NM capable of spreading a few gallons (if that much) of bug juice. That, in my book, is not a threat. Not to mention the fact that if he does indeed have these weapons he's had 12 years to use or threaten their use and not once has he made that move. Again, in my book, not a threat.

Whereas, a certain Asian country has been test flying missiles, mobilizing weapons and troops and flat out saying that they would go nuclear (because, let's see they do have nukes) if the U.S. "gets aggressive" and or does not negotiate the way they want. In addition, their definition of "aggressive" is little more than the U.S. farting in the wrong direction. That, to me, is a threat.

But I forget, that certain Asian country doesn't have oil and wasn't the target of a certain president's daddy.
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
Be careful with the truth, pilot602, it hurts and some people don't want to hear it.

On that note, you're absolutly right. They are flight testing a multi stage ICBM that can reach 8,000 miles. The CIA told the Senate that not too long ago.

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 

maniacmatt

New Member
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No, this war very well may instigate that - in the form of more 9/11 type deals.

However, a war with N. Korea would/could prevent that.

Or a war/closer inspection of IRAN would/could do that.

All SH/Iraq has is a remotely controlled aircraft with a range a few hundred NM capable of spreading a few gallons (if that much) of bug juice. That, in my book, is not a threat. Not to mention the fact that if he does indeed have these weapons he's had 12 years to use or threaten their use and not once has he made that move. Again, in my book, not a threat.

Whereas, a certain Asian country has been test flying missiles, mobilizing weapons and troops and flat out saying that they would go nuclear (because, let's see they do have nukes) if the U.S. "gets aggressive" and or does not negotiate the way they want. In addition, their definition of "aggressive" is little more than the U.S. farting in the wrong direction. That, to me, is a threat.

But I forget, that certain Asian country doesn't have oil and wasn't the target of a certain president's daddy.

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YES! My thoughts exactly.
 
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If we go to war the airlines won't be the only thing hurting and collapsing. Gas is already $2.10 a gallon down the street from me. People are loosing their jobs. The Federal government is at it's absolute spending limit and the nation is $300-some-odd billion in debt. War will only make it worse, not better.

The only war that has helped our economy was WWII. Every other war has drained us. This one will be no exception.

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Written like a true capitalist. I guess money really is the root of all evil. Remember, there is always a way to make a buck off this. If not, it's not worth doing. Maybe we can invest in French defense contractors who have military equipment deals with Iraq. By the way, this is sarcasm if you haven't guessed.

OUT!!!!!!!

SR
 

Eagle

New Member
"he tried to kill mah daddy" GWB

Vote GOP, Don't vote based on your wallet or job prospects.

By the way those of you who think this has nothing to do with oil. explain if you will why Gas is up to 1.80 national average, and who is making the profit from that? we lost **SOME** of our imports from south america but the 50% increase goes to..

Say it all together now..

the OIL COMPANIES....
 

braidkid

New Member
I hope you guys are joking when you say the reason we're going to war with Iraq is because of George's daddy cause that's one of the funniest things I've read this year!!! Please, please come up with better reasons not to go to war than that cause it's cracking me up...
 

Eagle

New Member
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I hope you guys are joking when you say the reason we're going to war with Iraq is because of George's daddy cause that's one of the funniest things I've read this year!!! Please, please come up with better reasons not to go to war than that cause it's cracking me up...

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Try and settle down.

There is No clearer reason for our policy on Iraq than the revenge from Saddams attempt on Dubb's dad.

Start reading

This

and get back to us...
 

braidkid

New Member
Awwww, i've fallen and can't get up!!! I'm rolling on the floor that is so funny!!!
Politics never cease to amaze me. I guess people will find excuses no matter what to support their views but that is just too hilarious.
Thanks for adding a little bit of humor to my boring morning routine!!
 

Eagle

New Member
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I guess people will find excuses no matter what to support their views but that is just too hilarious.

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In other words, you only disagree, but won't back up the disagreement with any facts..

Just like the rest of the Tories
 

jtrain609

I'm a carnal, organic anagram.
Eagle has got a point here. Some of these responses remind me of a kid in my national government class. He's a hardcore republican and I'm definetly not (we'll call me a neo-liberal). I'll ask him a question and most of the time he'll reply with "I'm not even going to justify that with an answer." What the heck is that? Have your opinions guys, but be able to support them instead of just saying the other opinion is stupid.

Cheers


John Herreshoff
 

Olympic

Well-Known Member
When I was going to get my First class medical, I found a few airline pilots waiting in the lobby and all they were talking about was how the war is gonna do a lot of harm to the airlines. Going to war early won't help anything, think before you speak.
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, that seems to be the mantra of the Right: blanket support for ANYTHING the Bush administration proposes..... because he's their boy in office.

It's like watching a bunch of lemmings go screaming over a cliff.

These are the folks who, when they were children and their mothers asked them "Well - if Georgie jumped off a bridge, would you do the same thing?"

And they said "Well.... yeah."
 

A320_DUDE

Well-Known Member
To get back to the orignally scheduled topic:

I know JB is not a quote-un quote major carrier,but NOBODY sees us taking any losses if and when we go to war. Profitsharing was in double digets,the planes are still showing up at a average of 1 a month,people are still getting hired(gotta keep building that company seniority
!),and Airbus is picking up for the fuel and MX costs! Before you guys get red-faced,that last part is just a joke....we are paying for fuel and the majority of our planes are still under warrenty! We just opened a crew base in FLL,so JB should be growing down there pretty good,rumors are that mgmt. people are scouring ORD and DFW for good space that we could use. We're pretty much okay,my friends at WN report almost the same is going on over there,so don't let all the gloom and doom get you hot and bothered!
 

pilot602

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HEHEHEHEHE HAHAHAHAHA OHHHHHHH HAHAHAHA

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I'm absolutely in awe of the care, intelligence and thought that obviously went into this scathing and pointed remark.
 
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