Looks like Boeing created a dozen scabs

Yes, but generally only after the guys who got fired were offered their jobs back. The exceptions to that reside in a pdf file that many of us carry around with us still, even though about 95% of the names have "dead" next time them or are over 65.
I just wanted to come back to the fact that upon death, "dead" is labeled next to the name rather than it being removed from the list. Very telling. Fly struck work and history will remember you, hopefully the ordeal of the Falcon Air Express MD-80 crew on social media after they flew during the Spirit strike would make many think twice in this day and age.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
I just wanted to come back to the fact that upon death, "dead" is labeled next to the name rather than it being removed from the list. Very telling. Fly struck work and history will remember you, hopefully the ordeal of the Falcon Air Express MD-80 crew on social media after they flew during the Spirit strike would make many think twice in this day and age.
Scab is a scab forever.

And the Falcon thing was just the FO. The captain thought it was awesome.
 

B767

Well-Known Member
Couple things. People, please straighten me out. Yes, the ABX strike was illegal. I’ve read and reread RLA. Haven’t seen anything about status quo strikes. (I’m certainly no lawyer though and all the legalese confuses me)

And if memory serves wasn’t IBT saying they were “striking ramp operations” in CVG or something like that? Meaning they were striking any movement on the CVG ramp? Would that be akin to United striking and saying “we are striking the ramp” thus no ALPA carriers can move in ORD, LAX, JFK, SFO, etc?

There’s at least 2 flights/day from CVG-LEJ. If Kalitta strikes and Atlas flew their regular scheduled flight, would you consider Atlas pilots scabs @jhugz?

(Disclaimer: I don’t know the ins and outs of whether ATI flew/picked up any routes for ABX during the 48 hours)
 

jhugz

The Juarez Express
Couple things. People, please straighten me out. Yes, the ABX strike was illegal. I’ve read and reread RLA. Haven’t seen anything about status quo strikes. (I’m certainly no lawyer though and all the legalese confuses me)

And if memory serves wasn’t IBT saying they were “striking ramp operations” in CVG or something like that? Meaning they were striking any movement on the CVG ramp? Would that be akin to United striking and saying “we are striking the ramp” thus no ALPA carriers can move in ORD, LAX, JFK, SFO, etc?

There’s at least 2 flights/day from CVG-LEJ. If Kalitta strikes and Atlas flew their regular scheduled flight, would you consider Atlas pilots scabs @jhugz?

(Disclaimer: I don’t know the ins and outs of whether ATI flew/picked up any routes for ABX during the 48 hours)
Not really sure the point you’re trying to make. Kalitta, Polar, and Southern held the line with their ABX brethern. ATI did not. Hell I believe even CargoJet held the line.
 
I am somewhat familiar with what is going on. This is the group that I used to be a part of. Thankfully I made a decision over a year ago to leave that group for a variety of reasons.
I was under the impression that this was from the pool that they draw from in T&PS for training. Different crowd?
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
Couple things. People, please straighten me out. Yes, the ABX strike was illegal. I’ve read and reread RLA. Haven’t seen anything about status quo strikes. (I’m certainly no lawyer though and all the legalese confuses me)

And if memory serves wasn’t IBT saying they were “striking ramp operations” in CVG or something like that? Meaning they were striking any movement on the CVG ramp? Would that be akin to United striking and saying “we are striking the ramp” thus no ALPA carriers can move in ORD, LAX, JFK, SFO, etc?

There’s at least 2 flights/day from CVG-LEJ. If Kalitta strikes and Atlas flew their regular scheduled flight, would you consider Atlas pilots scabs @jhugz?

(Disclaimer: I don’t know the ins and outs of whether ATI flew/picked up any routes for ABX during the 48 hours)
So, the problem with ACMI is you can't really tell who's freight is who's. I mean K4 is flying a lot of our freight right now, even with the Polar call sign. That makes it obvious, but if ABX struck, they could just move the freight over to some other 76's and have a few more flights on ATI and Atlas that day. You'd in all likelihood be flying struck work.
It'd be like if United was on strike in ORD and Delta just picked up all the pax with United tickets(United paying the bills) and flew them until the strike was over.
 

B767

Well-Known Member
Not really sure the point you’re trying to make. Kalitta, Polar, and Southern held the line with their ABX brethern. ATI did not. Hell I believe even CargoJet held the line.
Not trying to make a point. Trying to understand. I wasn’t a part of it all. Did ATI pickup/fly ABX routes? If so, I can understand the hatred (their union said it was informational picketing though...so I understand why they flew). Granted that’s not a defense for flying an ABX route. That would be a scab. My understanding, coming from Martin (whom I haven’t seen on here in a LONG time) was it was the ABX flying that was on strike (CVG and ILN). He even said that if someone did SFO-SEA they weren’t crossing.

ABX is all 767 yes? How would Kalitta or Atlas 747 flight from CVG-BRU/LEJ be flying struck work? That was never ABX flying (unless it was back then? I honestly don’t know).

Again, not trying to make a point. More trying to understand where the goal posts were.
 

B767

Well-Known Member
So, the problem with ACMI is you can't really tell who's freight is who's. I mean K4 is flying a lot of our freight right now, even with the Polar call sign. That makes it obvious, but if ABX struck, they could just move the freight over to some other 76's and have a few more flights on ATI and Atlas that day. You'd in all likelihood be flying struck work.
It'd be like if United was on strike in ORD and Delta just picked up all the pax with United tickets and flew them until the strike was over.
I wasn’t trying to make a point. Trying to understand. I get the ACMI part. Especially when it comes to the 767 (at that time). No one knows what’s going on. How would a K4 or Atlas 747 Crew flying from CVG-BRU/LEJ be flying struck work? As most likely the ABX strike affected domestic cargo. I guess if there was a point, what you said was it. For simplicities sake. United goes on strike. There were pax going ORD-ATL on UA. There’s (somehow!) open seats on a Delta flight from ORD-ATL. Those pax are rebooked on DL. Are those DL pilots flying struck work because they have UA booked pax on board?

Or another way. The Comair strike. Say the old Pinnacle had 1 daily CVG-RDU flight. Comair goes on strike. 1 pax is rebooked on the pinnacle flight to RDU. The pinnacle pilots that operate the flight are flying struck work?

@ATN_Pilot @Seggy
 

ATN_Pilot

Socialist Pig Member
I wasn’t trying to make a point. Trying to understand. I get the ACMI part. Especially when it comes to the 767 (at that time). No one knows what’s going on. How would a K4 or Atlas 747 Crew flying from CVG-BRU/LEJ be flying struck work? As most likely the ABX strike affected domestic cargo. I guess if there was a point, what you said was it. For simplicities sake. United goes on strike. There were pax going ORD-ATL on UA. There’s (somehow!) open seats on a Delta flight from ORD-ATL. Those pax are rebooked on DL. Are those DL pilots flying struck work because they have UA booked pax on board?

Or another way. The Comair strike. Say the old Pinnacle had 1 daily CVG-RDU flight. Comair goes on strike. 1 pax is rebooked on the pinnacle flight to RDU. The pinnacle pilots that operate the flight are flying struck work?

@ATN_Pilot @Seggy
Each MEC sets its own definition of struck work. But generally, the way it’s defined would be additional segments added in order to cover the flying. Moving a passenger to an already operating flight would not be considered struck work. But if Pinnacle added a new flight to accommodate those passengers, it would be.
 

B767

Well-Known Member
Each MEC sets its own definition of struck work. But generally, the way it’s defined would be additional segments added in order to cover the flying. Moving a passenger to an already operating flight would not be considered struck work. But if Pinnacle added a new flight to accommodate those passengers, it would be.
I am on board with you then. That’s my understanding. Doesn’t matter if the original scheduled pinnacle flight was empty then filled with XX pax from the struck flight, they’re fine. But if they add an additional flight to “help out Delta,” well, you’re an idiot for flying it.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
What's the word on that? Is that in arbitration? Same thing with Western Global and UPS...
Ya so we don't really have much scope. A grievance was filed because they did violate what little we have, but I don't think anything has come of it yet.
Why would it be in arbitration?
Because that is who decides a grievance if the union and company can't come to an agreement.
 

B767

Well-Known Member
Ya so we don't really have much scope. A grievance was filed because they did violate what little we have, but I don't think anything has come of it yet.

Because that is who decides a grievance if the union and company can't come to an agreement.
I know. I’ve read the contract. I was wondering why he thought it would be there or anything would come from it. I’m not arguing against Atlas here. He just has a terrible misunderstanding of how this all works. I sincerely hope you guys lock down solid scope, work rules, and pay rates. I’m sure you’re aware, but if you guys do, the other ACMI can follow. You still are the leader of the pack.
 

gotWXdagain

Highly Visible Member
So, the problem with ACMI is you can't really tell who's freight is who's. I mean K4 is flying a lot of our freight right now, even with the Polar call sign. That makes it obvious, but if ABX struck, they could just move the freight over to some other 76's and have a few more flights on ATI and Atlas that day. You'd in all likelihood be flying struck work.
It'd be like if United was on strike in ORD and Delta just picked up all the pax with United tickets and flew them until the strike was over.
I wasn’t trying to make a point. Trying to understand. I get the ACMI part. Especially when it comes to the 767 (at that time). No one knows what’s going on. How would a K4 or Atlas 747 Crew flying from CVG-BRU/LEJ be flying struck work? As most likely the ABX strike affected domestic cargo. I guess if there was a point, what you said was it. For simplicities sake. United goes on strike. There were pax going ORD-ATL on UA. There’s (somehow!) open seats on a Delta flight from ORD-ATL. Those pax are rebooked on DL. Are those DL pilots flying struck work because they have UA booked pax on board?

Or another way. The Comair strike. Say the old Pinnacle had 1 daily CVG-RDU flight. Comair goes on strike. 1 pax is rebooked on the pinnacle flight to RDU. The pinnacle pilots that operate the flight are flying struck work?

@ATN_Pilot @Seggy
Then you’d just be punishing the passenger?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 

jhugz

The Juarez Express
I know. I’ve read the contract. I was wondering why he thought it would be there or anything would come from it. I’m not arguing against Atlas here. He just has a terrible misunderstanding of how this all works. I sincerely hope you guys lock down solid scope, work rules, and pay rates. I’m sure you’re aware, but if you guys do, the other ACMI can follow. You still are the leader of the pack.
It's obvious from your last couple of posts that you don't understand this...

Try not to drink the ALPA Kool-Aide too much...
 
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typhoonpilot

Well-Known Member
I was under the impression that this was from the pool that they draw from in T&PS for training. Different crowd?
There are so many different pilot groups within Boeing that it is easy to get confused. They include:

Production Test
Experimental Test
PSIPS
PSP
FT-A
Safety
Regulatory
Standards
.....and probably a few more

The pilots being sent on this specific assignment are PSPs (Purchased Service Pilots).

The also keep changing the name of the organizations every couple of years so it is almost impossible for anyone not within the company to keep up. Some people still refer to the organization as either Flight Safety Boeing or Alteon, which were both quite a few name changes ago.
 

B767

Well-Known Member
It's obvious from your last couple of posts that you don't understand this...

Try not to drink the training department ALPA Kool-Aide too much...
Yes I liked that. I’ve been in this game a lot longer than you. So far I’ve been ALPA, non-union, IBT, ALPA again. I’m not drinking any Kool-Aide. Yes, I’m new to ACMI. Which is why I’m trying to UNDERSTAND where you’re coming from. Trust me. I’m coming in with an open mind. I’m just looking for the reasons behind the things you say. Because to me, the things you’re saying carry a very big stick. But the actions don’t seem to warrant such a stick. Now, I’m not saying they don’t if the evidence proves otherwise. I’m just asking you to explain. And you can type all you want on the intwrwebz about doing research. Well, I have. I want to know if we are reading the same documents and coming to different conclusions, or if we’re reading different docs. And if so, point me towards yours.

And because you quoted that specific post about arbitration. We fly for UPS and FedEx as well. Is that under arbitration? I’ve read the Atlas contract. There’s nothing stating K4 can’t do the Polar flying. Just states AAWH has to collect all the money. And it doesn’t mention a 747-400 at all. Only 100 and 200. Now, maybe AAWH isn’t collecting ALL the money and K4 is collecting some? If so then that does violate their scope. I can’t prove who’s collecting what though.

So please, enlighten me. That’s a request, not a threat.
 
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