logging time question

SEAN

New Member
If i split the time in a single engine wiht another buddy and he is in the right seat(cfii) and is pilot flying. I am in left seat working the radios, navaids, etc. Can i log that time towards total time for commercial rating legitimately? just wondering if maybe he needed to throw on the hood.
 

JEP

Malko In Charge
Staff member
If one pilot is "under the hood", and the other is a "safety pilot", then you both may log PIC time. (I Believe)
 

SEAN

New Member
But what if neither is under the hood. Can that time count towards total time(not pic)?
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
But what if neither is under the hood. Can that time count towards total time(not pic)?

[/ QUOTE ]No. Even though you are working the radios, you are a passenger. So far the FAA doesn't recognize "passenger time" as counting for anything.

The bottom line is that to even begin to be considered to count for =anything=, it has to be some kind of pilot time. If you're not actually flying the airplane and therefore able to log PIC time, we're left with the base definition of "pilot time" which except for instructional flights means serving as a required crewmember (FAR 61.1(b)(2)). "Required" means required by a regulation, not simply that another pilot gives you some jobs to do.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
No. Unless he's logging it as dual given and you're logging PIC. But for both of you to log straight, "simple" PIC one person would need to be under the hood and the "sole manipulator of the controls" and the other would need to be the safety pilot and would had to have agreed to be the "acting" PIC (i.e. putting his ticket on the line for any screw-ups you might make).
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If i split the time in a single engine wiht another buddy and he is in the right seat(cfii). . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Just fly the heck out of the airplane, and have him give you some real, legit instrument training, and you're good to go! Remember, just because you have an instrument rating already, doesn't mean that you can't get instrument instruction!!! So, for each portion of the flight, have him give you dual in something or another. Partial panel flying, radio communications, electronic navigation....anything that pertains to instrument flying!!!!!
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Remember, just because you have an instrument rating already, doesn't mean that you can't get instrument instruction!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
So true!

I recently shot a Localizer Backcourse approach in some pretty mean IMC and basically blew it.

So, two days later, the wx was pretty much identical to that day, so I grabbed my instructor and had him show me what I was doing wrong..... three times.

Worked like a charm.

R2F
 

SEAN

New Member
how did you blow it....elaborate if you dont mind.

The reason is was asking is because we both wanted to fly the plane but were trying to find a way to both log time inthe plane, not neccessarily pic. But I guess there is no other type of time other than pic...hmm..now iam rambling. hope my point is clear.
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]


I recently shot a Localizer Backcourse approach in some pretty mean IMC and basically blew it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch...I HATE Backcourse approaches. I suppose their better than an NDB, but they still suck.

The one thing that always gets me with the reverse sensing is heading outbound for the procedure turn on an ILS. Between trying to figure that out, while timing and descending, or whatever other junk is going on (shutting the kids up, looking for CD's, putting the newspaper away....
), it's downright horrible!!!

Somebody should fix that......
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
Somebody should fix that......

[/ QUOTE ]

Simple. Buy a $10,000 HSI, pay $2,000 for labor to install it and it's fixed!
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Was it reverse sensing that got you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Reverse sensing? What on earth is that?



Figures, now that I'm flying an airplane with an HSI, I haven't done a single back course.
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Was it reverse sensing that got you?

[/ QUOTE ]
No... mental retardation.... and a long time since I had flown one (over a year).

[ QUOTE ]
how did you blow it....elaborate if you dont mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the fixes are NDB fixes that are 64 adn 94 degrees from the final approach fix. I neglected to note that in my approach briefing and when we popped out of the clouds, even though the localizer said that we were only about a two dot deflectoin off the Final Approach Course.... we were OH - say 5 miles to the East of it.

I knew to expect the reverse sensing (i.e. "drag the needle" rather than "flying to it"), but I really screwed the pooch on the fixes and was way off.

Won't happen again.
 
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