logging taxi time?

sorrygottarunway

Well-Known Member
soooo, I'm cheapo, especially if I can get free PIC time.

Can I log the .2 of taxi time taxiing our baby piper back from Reliant for my flight school?
 

Alchemy

Partner, Ally, Friend
The way it was explained to me is that you can log the time when you taxiied with the intent to takeoff and when you are taxiing after landing. Taxiing from point A to point B without taking off is not loggable.
 

dakrzyhwn80

New Member
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Taxiing from point A to point B without taking off is not loggable.

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This is wrong. It shoud be taxiing from point A to point B without taking off is loggable with the intention to fly. For example, if you find out that you have a bad magnito while checking it on the take off checklist and want to taxi back to get it fixed, you can log it as flight time because you were intending to fly the plane.
make sense?
 

FL270

New Member
The reg says you may log that time beginning when the engine is started with the intention of flight until the engine is shut down afterward. In other words, as everyone else has said, as long as you *intend* to fly, you can log taxi time. In the King Air, since our Hobbs meter only counts air time, I start the Davtron clock when I turn the battery on, and record the elapsed time at shutdown ... the difference is typically .2-.3 over the Hobbs, sometimes more at EWR or places like that if there's a long line for takeoff.

You cannot, of course, log taxi time if you're just moving the airplane across the ramp or doing a runup after maintenance. Nor can a private pilot who happens to be a taxi-qualified airline employee log that time s/he spends taxiing that A320 from the hangar to the gate. (Sorry!)

FL270
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
I've personally always thought taxi time is BS time logged, somewhat an extra way to "eek out" an extra .1 or .2 in the logbook. In the military, usually .1 is added to taxi time. But I still, as I always have my entire aviation career, log departure roll to touchdown. I don't feel if I start engines/system checks for 12 minutes, wait an extra 16 minutes for IFR release, that it warrants me to log .5 extra.

If, over the course of my flying career, I've missed out on 20 hours of taxi time, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it.
 

PFactor

New Member
The DE that did my commercial asked me this question. Taxi time is considered part of the flight's operation, so yes you can log taxi time, it may seem like B.S. to some, but if you have an accident or incident while you taxi, it will be just as serious to the FAA as any other event.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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The DE that did my commercial asked me this question. Taxi time is considered part of the flight's operation, so yes you can log taxi time, it may seem like B.S. to some, but if you have an accident or incident while you taxi, it will be just as serious to the FAA as any other event.

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Flight time to me is just that, operation or not. Should I credit myself with extra night time since I taxiied at night? The reg may allow it, but that wouldn't be the first reg I didn't agree with. It makes no sense to me to, for example, be held on the ground for a couple of circuits around the pattern, and presumably have a flight where the taxi time exceeded the actual time in the air.

Then again, I don't really need the time anyway, so no need to have to squeeze that extra .1.

To me, it's the same as logging actual instruments at night, something I personally don't do either. We have guys that log actual at night when under NVGs, and that's a crock too, IMO.
 

DakotaBlue

New Member
the way i look at it...when your trained on an aircraft your trained on all aspects...not just flying but taxing and start up and run up...i think its ok to log taxi time if its reasonable. your piloting that a/c even though it is on the ground...i agree with mike about the actual at night though...thats shady
 

dakrzyhwn80

New Member
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the way i look at it...when your trained on an aircraft your trained on all aspects...not just flying but taxing and start up and run up...i think its ok to log taxi time if its reasonable. your piloting that a/c even though it is on the ground...i agree with mike about the actual at night though...thats shady

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amen
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
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i agree with mike about the actual at night though...thats shady

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I don't know if I agree with that 100%. It's not actual cloud time, or actual obstruction-to-visibility time - it's the time you're flying by reference to instruments.

Now, I'm not saying that anybody's going to be right or wrong in this one, but many of us (and I'm sure Mike D has) have flow in the dark, with NO ground lighting, maybe beneath a cloud deck with no moon to light anything up. Throw in a little bit of haze and some terrain to mix things up, and you have no choice but to fly strictly by reference to instruments!

Do the regs state that instrument time has to be due to IMC? If anyone can find it, I'd be interested in seeing that (no sarcasm..)!
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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the way i look at it...when your trained on an aircraft your trained on all aspects...not just flying but taxing and start up and run up...i think its ok to log taxi time if its reasonable. your piloting that a/c even though it is on the ground...i agree with mike about the actual at night though...thats shady

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Piloting it on the ground.
C'mon now, you're taxiing it; ie- driving it on the ground. I personally log flight time, not "intent to fly" time.

IMO, it's milking time that's not really there. It's akin to logging night time when you land at dusk, because, hey, I intended to fly at night, but landed early. To me (just how I look at it), it's trying to eek out some semblance of justifiable TT to log in the book for those that need all the time they can get.

For the logging of the night time, I don't see time of day as a "meterological condition" in the true sense of IMC/VMC. And on that note, could a Private pilot, non-instrument rated, flying at night between Phoenix and Albequerque (middle of nowhere) on a dark night log actual? Same conditions.

Again, the regs seem to say it's legal, I just don't happen to do it for myself. Then again, I don't need every .1 either.
 

triplec76

Well-Known Member
We are probably talking about two different types of people. One that has to pay for their flight time and another who is paid to fly. When Im paying $90/hr for an aircraft, Im going to log every second that hobbs is running.

I wouldnt log taxi time if I was bringing a customers plane from the T's to the shop, but anything else is fair game to me.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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We are probably talking about two different types of people. One that has to pay for their flight time and another who is paid to fly. When Im paying $90/hr for an aircraft, Im going to log every second that hobbs is running.

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Our Hobbs in our cargo planes operated off a weight-on-wheels switch, so it was still flight time only.

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I wouldnt log taxi time if I was bringing a customers plane from the T's to the shop, but anything else is fair game to me.

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Regardless if we're talking pay to fly/paid to fly, that really doesn't change the concept of justifiability from my point of view. Like I said, it's legal, just not something I do. Now, hypothetically, someone logging taxi time going from one hangar to another would be complete unfair game.

Then again, when one needs the time, I suppose they'll do nearly anything make that time. It's the same thing I see with many pilots trying to twist the "PIC" defination game every which way to justify that extra .3 of PIC.
 

DakotaBlue

New Member
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Do the regs state that instrument time has to be due to IMC? If anyone can find it, I'd be interested in seeing that (no sarcasm..)!

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"61.51 (g) logging instrument flight time
a person may log insturment time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions."

To me that means flight by reference to instruments in IMC, or simulated. not just for featureless terrain.
 

ERAU_Intern

New Member
This is a questionable one. Not as cut and dry as one may think. How about a dark night over northern Arizona with nothing, and I do mean NOTHING to judge your attitude by. Or how about freezing rain that completely covers your windscreen? Personally I think that both of those situations require flight entirely by reference to the instruments. Personally I think logging instrument time is a judgement call.
 

triplec76

Well-Known Member
I agree with that to a degree. If you are on an IFR flight plan, but are on top (not necessarily VFR-On-Top) you arent supposed to log that as actual time either, according to my old flight instructor. If you are on top of a cumulus layer that has large bumps and some large buildups, just what are you supposed to use as reference other than the instruments?
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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This is a questionable one. Not as cut and dry as one may think. How about a dark night over northern Arizona with nothing, and I do mean NOTHING to judge your attitude by. Or how about freezing rain that completely covers your windscreen? Personally I think that both of those situations require flight entirely by reference to the instruments. Personally I think logging instrument time is a judgement call.

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Situation #1 with the night: Could a Private pilot legally flying that as night VFR log it as actual? Again, night isn't a meterological condition.

Situation #2: A visibility limiter such as freezing rain is a meterological condition, therefore could very well be actual, if it's enough to give you IMC.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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I agree with that to a degree. If you are on an IFR flight plan, but are on top (not necessarily VFR-On-Top) you arent supposed to log that as actual time either, according to my old flight instructor. If you are on top of a cumulus layer that has large bumps and some large buildups, just what are you supposed to use as reference other than the instruments?

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I'd agree. Assume VFR on top. The fact you're on an IFR flightplan wouldn't be a factor. You'd most likely still be flying by reference to a horizon, depending on the moon; definately wouldn't be a factor if day in the same scenario. Suppose there could be cases where it would be a judgement call; but my point is I don't assume that all night is also actual like I see some people assume. Just came back tonight from a night flight. Was on a VFR flight plan, VFR on Top of CBs 015-150 OVC, and flew by reference to the outside with an obscured moon. Only time I was IMC was during the VFR descent through the undercast to descend below the base. Flight time was 2.6 night, 0.4 actual.
 
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