Logging PIC time

dashcraf

New Member
I am trying to clean up my log book and am concerned about some of my logged PIC time. I need a clarification of when a student can log dual flights and safety pilot time as PIC.

1) After completing my private license my instructor immediately had me start logging all of my simulated instrument flights as BOTH Dual and PIC. They indicated to me that once certificated I was technically PIC even when flying dual under the hood. They are PIC when we are in actual, but I am PIC when in VMC under the hood.

2) Later when getting checked out in a complex aircraft by another instructor they had me log the first few hours as only Dual until I received the complex endorsement. Then I logged additional dual hours (for insurance) as PIC also.

3) I understand that when 2 instrument-rated non-CFII pilots fly in VMC with one under the hood and the other as safety pilot, both may legally log this as PIC.


Are these 3 situations correct? Assuming they are, is it necessary to also keep a total of my "actual PIC" time where I was not receiving instruction or acting as safety pilot. I seem to remember reading Doug's posts about airlines wanting to see PIC time as only non-instruction, non-saftey pilot time.
 

flyitup

Well-Known Member
1) That’s correct; my instructor does the same thing.

2) According to what I have heard here locally, that is also true.

3) Here we go again...
There are many different opinions on this issue, but I'll tell you what my instructor told me. He actually went and spoke with the local DE to ask her about this situation and she said: "The pilot flying the aircraft under the hood is PIC under the stipulation that he is sole manipulator of the flight controls. The safety pilot, who has to be at least a private pilot, is there to maintain VFR separation, thus is a required crew member and can legally log PIC." Straight from the horses mouth...

What happens if a FAR is busted and there are two PIC’s on the flight? If this were to happen, you would have to look at the nature of the busted regulation. For example, if it was a busted altitude it would be the hood pilot’s responsibility. However, if there was a loss of separation, it would be the safety pilot’s fault…

That is exactly what I was taught…

Do I dare ask if there is anyone with an opposing opinion??
 

drumminpilot

Well-Known Member
Here's how I've logged/understood what the answers are:

1) I logged all VMC hood training with an instructor as dual and PIC. IMC training was dual only because of the actual. Everybody I know has done this.

2) You can log complex time as PIC before your complex signoff. Basically, you can log PIC if you're with a qualified instructor and not really "acting" as PIC. I called AOPA about this a few months ago when I got my complex signoff, and they agreed.

3) Big time gray area here. I'm not sure you'll get a clear answer on this one from anybody. I personally have never logged PIC while acting as safety pilot, but a lot of people have. Some people think it's wrong, some people think it's right. The ONLY reason I didn't log it is because I didn't want to mess with it just in case it turned out to be a bad thing. Most people that have logged it have never had a problem, I'm sure.
 

aloft

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
What happens if a FAR is busted and there are two PIC’s on the flight? If this were to happen, you would have to look at the nature of the busted regulation. For example, if it was a busted altitude it would be the hood pilot’s responsibility. However, if there was a loss of separation, it would be the safety pilot’s fault…

[/ QUOTE ]
Sigh...we covered this pretty thoroughly in another thread in the last week.

Bottom line, while more than one pilot may log PIC time, only one pilot can act as PIC in the FAR 1.1 sense at any one time and for all intents and purposes is indeed the Pilot in Command of that flight. Under the simulated instrument scenario, the pilots must agree beforehand who will act as PIC; if the safety pilot does not accept this responsibility, he/she may only log the flight time as SIC, not PIC. When a safety pilot accepts PIC responsibility, he/she is accepting total responsibility for the flight; if the pilot under the hood busts a FAR, the PIC--the safety pilot--gets the violation.
 

ananoman

New Member
For situation #1, both of you can log PIC whether you are in IMC or not, as long as you are with a CFII. If you log safety pilot as PIC you can't just write down all the time on the HOBBS as PIC. Unless you want the other person to taxi while under the hood (not recommended) you can only log the actual flight time as PIC when safety pilot.
 
Top