it keeps getting more interesting...

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
Hell why not just go all the way?

Want totally secured airlines? Shut 'em down.

No airplanes - no way they can be taken by the bad guys.




This is truly getting ridiculous.

Go Dubbya, go!
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
For goodnes sake!! What's next? "Oh, I'm sorry Mr. Ready2fly - I see that you made two late payments on your school loan back in 1993. Please come with us."

Credit checks and bank account checks go WAAAAAAY to far!!!
 

davetheflyer

New Member
As much as I hate to say it (cause I know it'll cause a ruckus), we need to stop wasting resources on the average traveler and focus on the problem group: young men of Middle Eastern and/or Muslim ethnicity. I know that racial profiling is a no-no, but it is effective.
 

naunga

New Member
I was just reading the article and took a look at the little interactive section they had up, and something very interesting struck me. The 10th point about Employee Screening says that everyone working for the TSA must be a U.S. Citizen.

I've heard a lot of talk about keeping foreign nationals out of this country, and you know I agree, but I stuggle with the fact that my entire family is a family of immigrants be it from Belgium, Scotland, or Cuba, but all of my ancestors became Citizens of the United States.

So my question is this: If the TSA is requiring it's employees to be citizens, then why not just extend that requirement to anyone from another country who wants to work here?

It makes sense when you consider that those people are working here either because they cannot find work in their home country or because they are looking to improve their quality of living. In either case why would you only plan to be here temporarily?

I actually think I'm going to pose this question to some of my reps.

Cheers.

Naunga
 

secretapproach

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
So my question is this: If the TSA is requiring it's employees to be citizens, then why not just extend that requirement to anyone from another country who wants to work here?

It makes sense when you consider that those people are working here either because they cannot find work in their home country or because they are looking to improve their quality of living. In either case why would you only plan to be here temporarily?


[/ QUOTE ]

There are lots of people all over the world working in countries they are not citizens of and a lot of them (myself included, as an American in Germany) have no intention of becoming citizens of their host country. Some people work for years and years and don't become citizens. And some poeple go to other countries to work temporarily for the experience of it (it's not only people from other countries going to the US). Why should I become a citizen of Germany just because I live and work here and why should someone working in the US have to become a citizen to be able to work? If the host country has a need for someone's skill, let him or her in! It's great for the economy. In my opinion, the terrorists who staged Sept. 11, 2001 have already accomplished a lot by scaring the pants off a very powerful country. And now in our fear we are trying to shut down the borders and are starting to chant counterproductive protectionist slogans. It makes me sad to see what has happened to my country. I'm sure Al Qaeda is just giggling over this. If you want to make sure there are no pilot jobs, do everything you can to make sure the economy is really inflexible. Start by requiring citizenship to work.

And what many Americans don't know is that we are often treated better when we want to go to Country X than when someone from Country X wants to go to the US. I've always wondered why it's so easy for me to work in Germany when a German has a lot harder time if he/she wants to go to the US. Why do they not treat us with as much scrutiny as they are treated with? And this was going on long before Sept. 11.

The United States is strong because of its diverse heritage.
 

naunga

New Member
I should point out that if you read that section of the article linked in the original post, you'll see that other countries require the same thing as the TSA is.

You raise some interesting points. Let me ask this question:
Do you think that if a foreign national should be preferred over a citizen?

I ask this, because I see a lot of it in my industry (IT). Workers from India etc. who pad their resumes, have credientials that are very difficult to verify, and flat out lie, are getting preference over U.S. Citzens, because they're willing to work for half of what a qualified U.S. Citizen would put up with. Or the opposite is true: the foreign guys are making twice what their U.S. counterpart is because they claim to be "better" qualified. Managers are then finding out that they have been hoodwinked, and because of the enormous investment in legal fees etc. that a company needs to pay to sponsor a foreign national's visa, they keep this under-qualified person in order to get an ROI.

I can agree with your point about temporary workers, but I think that those people looking for the "experience" of working in the U.S. should be reqiured to be upfront with hiring managers about their intentions to not become a long term employee.

I still feel that if you're planning on staying in this country permanently you should become a citizen.

Naunga
 

secretapproach

New Member
I guess it depends on your definition of "temporary." I've worked in Germany for almost three years and I might go back to the US this summer. But I might never go back. Am I temporary? I don't even know yet. Most employers don't expect more than a few years out of someone for most positions anyway.

About padding resumes. I wouldn't say that's the sole domain of non-US citizens trying to work in the US. Resumes are sort of expected to sound more positive than the facts would warrant. It's just the question of how far you go with it. And if these employers are getting duped that easily they don't have much business savvy.

Ok, I would love to keep typing, but I have to get to the airport to pick up my girlfriend. I'll just say that exactly this discussion is what makes international economics so interesting (ok, I'm a nerd)!
 

GliderPilot

New Member
I agree w/ SecretApproach on this one. I think requiring all who work in the US to be citzens is an isolationist point of view that is impractical given the global economy we now live in.

Imigrant workers are essential to every 1st world nation. Imigrant labor is the backbone of our economy. You might not like to admit it, but without these hardworking people you'd pay twice as much at restaurants, at walmart, and you've never be able to buy a reasonably priced new home in the suburbs.

Besides entry level food service and construction foriegners provide invaluable skills in many industries. I have a Swiss friend who works for Dish Network. He works in Satelite communication security. The US firm contracts his Swiss outfit to handle all of the encryption and security. This creates a human "firewall." Keep your security and your main business seperate and don't let the two mix. Besides, the Swiss workers are kept on a short lease. One security breach and au revoir, it's back to Switzerland you go.

After 9/11 we are all scared. But we can't let this fear guide our judgements when it comes to civil liberties. A psuedo big brother computer system that tracks all of us scares the sh*t out of me. To me the freedom to move freely (especially quickly by air) should be protected as part of our 1st amendment rights. A poor credit check is not probable cause for a terrorist act. There will be more unrest and more terroism in the years to come, it's a nasty fact of the world we live in. We need to focus on hands on security meassures. Screen all the bags that go on a plane. Put people through metal detectors again and again. Invent better screening devices. I think we should be unwilling to give up our civil liberties. my 2 cents.
 

Eagle

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Just what I wanted, my credit and bank accounts checked when I travel.

[/ QUOTE ]

reason #453 why we bought an airplane.
 

sbe

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
reason #453 why we bought an airplane.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, and I've looked into flying myself (though I don't own) when company business took me to locales that were in the general midwest area - unfortunately, our parent company doesn't permit it (it's written into our travel policies guide, bright as day).

Sarah
 
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