Is UND the "Right stuff" for me?

kingair130

New Member
Hi all,

While growing up in NYC, I spent my summers in ND (primarily Devils Lake & GF). I had always wanted to be a pilot, but after hearing about a public high school that offers an airframe & powerplant + HS diploma, I became a bit detoured and set my eyes on that (never thought myself to have any kind of mechanical abilities whatso ever). I have about a 34 general credits from the CC in DL, and then took a break of transferring to UND after being hooked up with a job at Newark, thought it would a good idea to put my skills to the test, get a free education/experience (about aircraft and their systems, and the industry), and save up some cash to help get started at UND. Well, I love my job, but I realize I am not getting any younger (21), and would like to get started on flying (+4 year degree-at a minimum). UND has always appealed to me because of my family connections, their coaxing me about what a great school it is, amongst other things...

Well I'm just about almost fully signed up to start in Aug, but after doing a bit of research and stumbling along this wonderful fourm and und-fraud.org, I've been having some 2nd thoughts. I have no documented flying experience, which is good because I won't get screwed over with that. UND does have some ridiculous and scandalous policies and fees, which I surely do not agree with, but I am still willing to live with them. I see in the course catolog there are some classes such as turbine techology and aircraft systems, and possibly other that I didn't catch that i feel I could confidently test out of them if given the chance, but after a talk on the phone with someone from the aviation dept, they said no of course. I wonder if once I'm actually there in person though I might have a bit better luck of persuading someone? Anyone know of anybody or stories of A&Ps going through the program?
Is the aerospace notebook program as big a scam as it sounds?
I do not come from a wealthy family and not expecting any contributions, so I would like to make sure digging myself into 80-100k+ debt from this school worthwhile.
PS-I completed FAFSA a few weeks ago but it surely didn't factor in the flying expenses. What do I do about resolving that/can I?

* I looked into getting a job maintaining the UND fleet-sounded pretty cool, only to find they are paying those poor guys $8 an hour! (frankly, an insult ). Anybody know if those guys are able to piggyback or build hours for free or at a lower cost? If so I would only consider it then.

So, I am in the process of trying to possibly get into the contract company that runs the fed-ex carivans out there or GFK flight support which could defintely be advantageous.

Sorry about the unecessarily long post but any advice or input would be greatly appreciated from you guys and girls!!!
 

CAFFEINE

Well-Known Member
First of all, don't believe that UND fraud website.

UND Aerospace is a great option if you prefer a more structured flight training environment. I really enjoyed my college experience and instructing there. Now bring on the UND haters...:rolleyes:
 

av8or91

Well-Known Member
I know of two people who were in my systems class that worked as mechanics out at the airport. They were not certified airframe and power plant mechanics so yes that had some pretty low pay. Im sure if you go in there with experience and the A&P cert, pay must be better than 8 dollars an hour.

About taking some redundant classes, if you major in something else and minor if professional flight you dont have to take any of that except for systems which is taken in unison with aerodynamics.
 

JBulleit

Well-Known Member
I went to Southeastern Oklahoma State University. They had probably the most affordable aviation program that I've ever heard of. UND is a great school but its at least twice as much as SOSU. The downside is SOSU doesnt have a real big maintenance program.
 

Jason

Well-Known Member
KA130 - Do you realize that in your first post you used the words "scam", "scandalous", and "ridiculous"?? It sounds to me like you're going into it with some pretty strong preconceived notions about UND and I think that sets you up for a "less than positive" experience there. UND is a good school but it's not the Holy Grail of aviation education - there are hundreds of other places you could go and get a 4 year degree and pilot ratings. The general tenor of your post suggests (at least to me) that you don't think it's a good idea but that you feel locked into it and are looking for justification not to go. If you have a gut feeling that it's not the right move for you, it's probably not - don't go. Don't do it for your family. UND (as with all university/academy programs) is very structured, if they already told you 'No' to testing out of those classes, you're not going to change their mind - period.

If you're already calling UND "scandalous" and you haven't even set foot on campus yet, it's not going to be a good experience and you're going to regret it.
 

Screaming_Emu

Great and Unmatched Wisdom
The UND fraud site is obviously run by someone with an axe to grind with the school. Is UND perfect? Absolutely not, but I don't think anywhere is. If you are willing to put in the time and effort, UND will help you get to where you want to be. I think most of the frustrations felt by people in the program are a result of 141 regulations and not the school.
 

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
I went to Southeastern Oklahoma State University. They had probably the most affordable aviation program that I've ever heard of. UND is a great school but its at least twice as much as SOSU. The downside is SOSU doesnt have a real big maintenance program.
Twice as much? Not possible. Are your aircraft rates $50 an hour?

UND aircraft rates are quite comparable with local FBOs. One thing is for certain, aviation is not cheap.

Is UND perfect? Nope, but it's great state school with affordable tuition. I had a great time there and have so many connections. Almost every time I fly, I run into an alum in the airport. Great for networking and since you have family in ND, it should be a no brainer for you.
 

av8or91

Well-Known Member
I really dont understand how people can say UND is expensive. Can someone explain to me how it is expensive? I think some people are just bitter about how much flight training actually costs. Correct me if im wrong but isnt actually cheaper since we need less flight time than part 61 schools to obtains certificates?
 

JBulleit

Well-Known Member
Twice as much? Not possible. Are your aircraft rates $50 an hour?

UND aircraft rates are quite comparable with local FBOs. One thing is for certain, aviation is not cheap.
By twice as much, I was referring to the overall cost of a 4 year degree. I'm sure the airplane costs are not outrageous. The difference comes in the cost of tuition, room and board, and extra fees billed by the university. Double may be a little exaggerated, but UND definitely costs thousands more.
 

CaptainChris87

New Member
Hi all,

While growing up in NYC, I spent my summers in ND (primarily Devils Lake & GF). I had always wanted to be a pilot, but after hearing about a public high school that offers an airframe & powerplant + HS diploma, I became a bit detoured and set my eyes on that (never thought myself to have any kind of mechanical abilities whatso ever). I have about a 34 general credits from the CC in DL, and then took a break of transferring to UND after being hooked up with a job at Newark, thought it would a good idea to put my skills to the test, get a free education/experience (about aircraft and their systems, and the industry), and save up some cash to help get started at UND. Well, I love my job, but I realize I am not getting any younger (21), and would like to get started on flying (+4 year degree-at a minimum). UND has always appealed to me because of my family connections, their coaxing me about what a great school it is, amongst other things...

Well I'm just about almost fully signed up to start in Aug, but after doing a bit of research and stumbling along this wonderful fourm and und-fraud.org, I've been having some 2nd thoughts. I have no documented flying experience, which is good because I won't get screwed over with that. UND does have some ridiculous and scandalous policies and fees, which I surely do not agree with, but I am still willing to live with them. I see in the course catolog there are some classes such as turbine techology and aircraft systems, and possibly other that I didn't catch that i feel I could confidently test out of them if given the chance, but after a talk on the phone with someone from the aviation dept, they said no of course. I wonder if once I'm actually there in person though I might have a bit better luck of persuading someone? Anyone know of anybody or stories of A&Ps going through the program?
Is the aerospace notebook program as big a scam as it sounds?
I do not come from a wealthy family and not expecting any contributions, so I would like to make sure digging myself into 80-100k+ debt from this school worthwhile.
PS-I completed FAFSA a few weeks ago but it surely didn't factor in the flying expenses. What do I do about resolving that/can I?

* I looked into getting a job maintaining the UND fleet-sounded pretty cool, only to find they are paying those poor guys $8 an hour! (frankly, an insult ). Anybody know if those guys are able to piggyback or build hours for free or at a lower cost? If so I would only consider it then.

So, I am in the process of trying to possibly get into the contract company that runs the fed-ex carivans out there or GFK flight support which could defintely be advantageous.

Sorry about the unecessarily long post but any advice or input would be greatly appreciated from you guys and girls!!!
As a former UND student and a minority I assure you that UND FRAUD WEBSITE IS NOT TRUE. Now with GFK standards of living $8 may suffice? I had a job for 5.45 during the summer and part of the year it paid for my food and extra expenses. there realley is no other way to avoid debt. Even if you do the Community college route and State college cost totals the same, trust me. I know from experience. ITs all up to you wether to do the University route or not. FAFSA you have to pay back with low interest though.

I suggest looking for grants/Financial aid's/ and scholarships.
 

kingair130

New Member
Thanks a bunch for the imput guys...its definetely nice to hear people who have a first hand opinion. I do apologize if I sound like I was bashing the school, I'm sure it's a great, quality place.I have been to the campus (and airport) many times over and am fairly impressed. I understand there are cheaper and quicker routes, but do any of you really feel that UND gave you a leg up into jump starting your career as opposed to potential other routes? I know starting pilots get paid garbage...
and obviously loan paybacks are going to be high...and of course people have managed, but personal stories would be nice of what its like coming out of school?
I also realize due to rising expenses and downturn in the industry at the moment, the pickings aren't as good has they have been....but Is it still common for companies to be waiting to pick up students right after graduation for jobs? Or has it become a free for all, where everyone is running around scrambling for jobs?

thanks again!

Also, I haven't been able to get a straight answer based on the website,
Is it possible to major in something else, and still go through all the flight training and able to recieve all the ratings? What exactly does the "minor in aviation" do for you? And do you get to bypass a majority of the aviation classes and go straight for the ratings?

And Chris, thanks for the reply, but I really was asking....does/can FAFSA cover the flight expenses? Or does it usually only go as far as basic tution/living costs?
 

jrosard12

Well-Known Member
Is it possible to major in something else, and still go through all the flight training and able to recieve all the ratings? What exactly does the "minor in aviation" do for you? And do you get to bypass a majority of the aviation classes and go straight for the ratings?
Look about 2/3 down the page here: http://www.und.nodak.edu/dept/registrar/catalogs/catalog/ugdept/depts/avit.htm

"Minor in Professional Flight" looks like you can get all of your ratings except CFI/CFII
 

av8or91

Well-Known Member
Also, I haven't been able to get a straight answer based on the website,
Is it possible to major in something else, and still go through all the flight training and able to recieve all the ratings? What exactly does the "minor in aviation" do for you? And do you get to bypass a majority of the aviation classes and go straight for the ratings?
Yes, I believe you can major in anything you want and just take the core aviation classes that are associated with the flight course you are in. There is no way you can just fly and not take the ground school. All you need to take are 6 classes which will give you a minor in professional flight and you will have your commercial single and multi engine land certs as well as an instrument rating.(all done in one checkride) I cant really answer any of your other questions about the industry as im still a student.
__________________
 

CaptainChris87

New Member
And Chris, thanks for the reply, but I really was asking....does/can FAFSA cover the flight expenses? Or does it usually only go as far as basic tution/living costs?

It depends on your parents income, you recieve more if your form divorced parents and they make less income etc.... But generally it only covers tuition, living expenses. Once you apply fo rinstate tutition though after becomming a resident it gets cheaper so you can use that money as necessary, Good luck to you!
 

kingair130

New Member
Yes, I believe you can major in anything you want and just take the core aviation classes that are associated with the flight course you are in. There is no way you can just fly and not take the ground school. All you need to take are 6 classes which will give you a minor in professional flight and you will have your commercial single and multi engine land certs as well as an instrument rating.(all done in one checkride) I cant really answer any of your other questions about the industry as im still a student.
__________________
Thanks av8or,

What year student are you now? So you're telling me there aren't airline HR recruiters lining up at the doors to pick up graduates?
 

av8or91

Well-Known Member
Thanks av8or,

What year student are you now? So you're telling me there aren't airline HR recruiters lining up at the doors to pick up graduates?

Ill be starting my junior year in august, and as far as I know,not at the current time are airline HR reps just picking up graduates. There is a however a time when alot of airlines and different companies come to the university and so you can see what they are all about and and talk to HR reps. I think they also did some interviews at that time as well. I believe they do this every year in april. Last I heard there was a surplus of instructors right now so odds are you will end up instructing before you get hired. I also just looked at the academic catalog and there is a total of 9 classes to minor in professional flight.

Heres a list and the classes with > are flight courses.

Meterology
Aviation Meteorology
>Introduction to aviation( class where you get your private)
aviation safety
>basic attitude and instrument flying
>ifr regs and procedures
>aerodynamics
systems
>mutliengine systems and procedures( you get you commercial multi, single and instrument at completion of this course)
 

TXaviator

Well-Known Member
Thanks av8or,

What year student are you now? So you're telling me there aren't airline HR recruiters lining up at the doors to pick up graduates?
LOL yeah UND would love for you to believe that.... but no. that was a brief phenomenon last year.
 

Farva

New Member
Thanks av8or,

What year student are you now? So you're telling me there aren't airline HR recruiters lining up at the doors to pick up graduates?
Well some of us are graduates of UND and are in the professional world of aviation whether it be the airlines or instructing. I can say that a few months ago airlines where at the school hiring pilots left and right for the most part but now with high oil prices and a shaky economy nobody is hiring and in fact alot are furloughing. I will say UND does help you get a leg up in the industry not because you are better than everybody else but rather the connections to the industry. I will agree with Caffine on UND since he and I started at the same time and for the most part ended around the same time. UND is not perfect but like one fellow JCer said nowhere is.

Put in a good attitude and work ethic and UND can be totally awesome. You could also come in and be well its not like such and such and doesnt have this or that and its boring and well then you can lay around hating that you came here. Funny enough your career will take you to places that are even more dull than GFK.( just got back from CPR) Or you can enjoy the fact that you are going to college and getting a education and well getting to fly on the side. As a current airline pilot and a former UND instructor I can say I would do UND over again and if you got questions I can give you answers or point you in the right direction. Good luck and I am off.

-farva
 
Top