Interesting weight and balance question.

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
My response is typically "Sure, ok, I guess..."

If you are asked "How did you determine that the aircraft is within weight and balance limitations for this flight?" You will answer "I calculated a weight and balance." The next question will be "Using what data?"
 

thevideographer

Well-Known Member
If I have to have a sheet of paper with my W&B data anyway, why wouldn't I just stick it in my flight bag and take it on the aircraft with me?
 

Fly_Unity

Well-Known Member
Im not a big ARROW fan.

People will go out of the way for a W/B form, then leave all the STC, GPS etc. supplements at home....
 

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
That isn't the acronym's fault ;)

Do you teach that it means "Operating handbook?" or "Operating limitations?" I teach the latter and make sure that it's understood that that includes flight manual supplements, placards, special flight permits, etc.

STC paperwork, unless it's a flight manual supplement, is not required to be carried.
 

Fly_Unity

Well-Known Member
Just not an acronym guy.

Flew with a instructor the other day. I asked him to do slow flight.

First he did "ACE", then a revised version of "GUMPS", then "PPT". Then he did his slow flight which included another acronym (I cant remember what it was). Then we did a stall, and went through the whole list of acronyms again. I always hated TomatoFlames too. I teach if something is broke, look it up in 91.213 (or.205). I refuse to memorize Tomatoflames (although I could probably figure it out if I tried).

Again just not my style. Everyone is different
 

vheissu

Well-Known Member
Nothing saying you have to have a copy of your WB data onboard Part 91, but definitely be able to explain to a potential inspector how you determined that you were within the envelope if asked.
 

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
Just not an acronym guy.

Flew with a instructor the other day. I asked him to do slow flight.

First he did "ACE", then a revised version of "GUMPS", then "PPT". Then he did his slow flight which included another acronym (I cant remember what it was). Then we did a stall, and went through the whole list of acronyms again. I always hated TomatoFlames too. I teach if something is broke, look it up in 91.213 (or.205). I refuse to memorize Tomatoflames (although I could probably figure it out if I tried).

Again just not my style. Everyone is different

I don't memorize tomatoflames either. With you on that one.
 

rframe

pǝʇɹǝʌuı
I don't memorize tomatoflames either. With you on that one.
I actually think that's one of the more useful ones. After their check ride, most people aren't hauling around a FAR (well now with smart devices it's more common), so knowing what minimal equipment is required is actually pretty practical.
 

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
The thing is, 91.205 is the very last place you should be looking for required equipment as it only applies if there is no equipment list in the AFM. Everything else (MEL,AFM, AD's, STC's, Type Cert, Other FAR) supersedes.

For example, 91.205 says I need a fuel quantity gauge for each tank, but the AFM equipment list says I can fly with one inop provided I visually verify fuel level. The AFM has "FAA Approved" stamped on it, so it wins.
 

rframe

pǝʇɹǝʌuı
For example, 91.205 says I need a fuel quantity gauge for each tank, but the AFM equipment list says I can fly with one inop provided I visually verify fuel level. The AFM has "FAA Approved" stamped on it, so it wins.
Can you explain this one to me? The way I read 91.213(d) that doesn't fly, but I could be wrong in my understanding for sure.

Assuming we are talking about a non-MEL aircraft, the way I read it, all of i-iv must apply, so if any cause an exception with this aircraft, then it's not legal to fly. Part (iii) calls out .205 (TOMATOFLAMES). So while the AFM might add additional required equipment, I dont think it can eliminate items from the .205 list, can it? If so, where is this permitted in the regulations?

(2) The inoperative instruments and equipment are not—
(i) Part of the VFR-day type certification instruments and equipment prescribed in the applicable airworthiness regulations under which the aircraft was type certificated;
(ii) Indicated as required on the aircraft's equipment list, or on the Kinds of Operations Equipment List for the kind of flight operation being conducted;
(iii) Required by §91.205 or any other rule of this part for the specific kind of flight operation being conducted; or
(iv) Required to be operational by an airworthiness directive
 

popaviator

Well-Known Member
I thought someone said this would be an interesting weight and balance question. :)
I work at a flight school in China. The maintenance staff removed all the original weight and balances last week. I inquired about this and they gave me a scanned copy. I argued about this in my $&&ty (why can't we curse on JC ....come on Derg) mandarin but that's all they gave me. I just want to make sure I'm not breaking any regs. China copy catted the FAA so if I'm breaking an FAA reg I'm probably breaking a Chinese reg. :sigh: none of
The other Chinese flight instructors give a •! , but I'm white and have round eyes so I have to cover my @ss.
 
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