Instrument Oral Gouge

chunk75

Well-Known Member
1. Why are some MORA's (Jepp) green and some maroon?

2. If flying in VMC under IFR what are your fuel requirements?

3. When is an alternate required?

...more later

Chunk
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
1. Good question, don't believe I have noticed. Have to look that one up.

2. If you have filed IFR, it is 45 minutes.

3. 91.169 - ALWAYS, except:

A) If a standard IAP exists for the first airport of intended landing and:

B) 1,2,3 rule

Don't forget about the WX mins for the alternate:

A)At the ETA to the alternate the CIG/VIS have to be at or above the following mins:
1. If an IAP has been published for that particular airport, use the mins in that procedure. If none are specified use the 600-2 (precision), 800-2 (non precision) rule.

If no IAP has been published you must be able to descend from the MEA, approach, and land under VFR.

Make sure you know this well for your oral. Good Luck, ILS
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
1. So what's the answer?


2. Nope. Try again!

3. Correct! If no SIAP exists at the destination OR the 1-2-3.

Chunk
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
About # 2.
91.167 states that: No person may operate "IN" IFR conditions unless:

I guess I should have thought about it a little more in depth. It reverts back to VFR 30 minutes-day/45 minutes-night.
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Yah....caught that bit from M.W. (don't like using names online)


You can file IFR and if you are in VMC, you can legally land with vapors in the tanks. The 30 minutes is "planned". You can plan for 55% and that'll give ya 30 minutes reserve and inflight decide to bump it to 65% or if the winds are more in your face than expected. If in IMC, you CAN NOT dip into the 45 minutes without declaring. ...least that's how he explained it to me.

Chunk
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
all right Chunk, My instructor and I went over this IFR fuel requirement thing today and now I think your post has me a bit confused. Did you get asked this on your checkride? I asked this question a little while ago on ILSapproach.com and I was told 45 if filed IFR. I will look it up later. Call me and let me know. ILS
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Man, even I'm confused now!

As far as I know, part-91 says that you have to fly to your intended destination, execute a missed approach, fly to your alternate and still have 45 minutes in the tank.

Now Part-135 and part-121 start bringing in single engine, 1 hour no wind alternate distances and stuff like that.
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
91.167 simply states like Doug said: first airport of intended, from there to the alternate (if required), and 45 minutes at "normal cruise flight". This is the answer I gave my instructor today and he did not say I was wrong. I called a friend of mine and he said if in VFR while on IFR plan it reverts back VFR rules. That still doesn't sound right. Can anyone clarify? I do recall some other discussion about fuel req. in II ground but can not remember. I will disect the FARS on this tomorrow. ILS
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
I think some of your CFI's are confusing VFR/VMC/IFR/IMC. But I may be wrong on this:

If you're on an IFR flight plan, whether or not you're in IMC or VMC, you're still not VFR and must strictly adhere by the IFR rules regardless of your flight conditions.

I might be wrong on that, and I don't own a set of FAR's but I think it's all about the flight plan (IFR or VFR) and not the flight condition (IMC or VMC).
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
Good point on the distinction between VFR and VMC. I think I fell into that trap on this one. Jepp. comercial instrument manual page 1-11 has the definitions for VFR,VMC,IFR,IMC. I think Chunk is playing with us. He knows the answer because he told me I was wrong when I said 45 the first time. Come on Chunk stop holding out. At least tell us this, did you fall for this one? Maybe on an oral? I remember on my instrument oral it was cut and dry: what are the fuel requirements when you file IFR? Reply: 45.........ILS
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
91.151 Fuel requirements for a flight in VFR conditions

a. No person may begin a flight in an airplane under VFR conditions unless (considering wind and forecast weather conditions) there is enough fuel to fly to the first point of intended landing and, assuming normal cruising speed -

1)During the day, to fly after that at least 30 minutes; or

2) At night, to fly after that for at least 45 minutes.

Okay! So note a few things here. VFR conditions, not a flight under VFR. Also, note "begin a flight"...that means you can legally land with less than 30/45 as long as you planned to have 30/45 when you landed.

Over to 91.167 Fuel requirements for flight in IFR conditions

okay...read it yourself. I think you get the idea. It's about VMC or IMC, not what type of flight plan you are on. plus, 167 says MAY NOT OPERATE which means you can't dip into the 45 without either busting a FAR or declaring.

Clear as mud?

I didn't have this on my checkride, but one of our check airman (a guy with nearly 30K hours and a former FAA inspector) pointed this out to me one day sitting on the couches. I tell ya, I learn more sitting on those couches!

Chunk
 

CLR4ILS

Well-Known Member
About that fuel reserve..... That is a techinicality. After further reading into the FARS and talking with my instructor about it, this is what I came up with. Technically yes if you never touch a cloud while on an IFR plan you are legal with less than 45. However, my instructor say's that is not the way the FAA intended it to be interpreted. I don't think you would want to chalenge the FAA on that if you filed IFR with less than 45 and ended up in trouble somehow. I would simply stick with the 45 minute rule. ILS
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Sure...I agree that it's not the smart plan, but then, neither is 45 minutes! I wouldn't go into hard IMC w/ less than an hour reserve.

Just a technicality, but hey, it might keep you out of trouble some day.

Chunk
 

davetheflyer

New Member
A good trick question on the IFR ride involves wind correction in your flight planning. Basically, when you do your planning, remember that airways are magnetic and winds are given in true. (Of course, the are rounded to the nearest ten degrees so any error will be minimal, but know this to impress your examiner/check airman.)
 
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