Instrument and Commercial simultaneous training

bassman0017

New Member
Need some help here. I am in a 141 school and my training is being delayed because I have not yet competed my instrument checkride. The FARs state that training can be accomplished simultaneously so long as one checkride is done before the other.

This 141 school is part of a university. I have completed the school course for instrument and have been continuously denied to begin my commercial training. No where in the schools FAA approved Training Course Outline (TCO) does it state as a prerequisite that I must hold an instrument rating to begin training. The schools justificstion is that the courses are built so one is working towards both. I think this is where they firmly believe that I already am completing training simultaneously yet I am denied further commercial training.

As far as matriculation and the university are concerned, I have completed this and have received a letter grade.

The reason for the delay in my instrument checkride is primarily scheduling conflicts and weather. Resulting in a currency lapse for the 3-hr in 60 days rule just to be eligible to take it. This has happened twice and is going on a third. On top of my busy schedule, it is difficult to find time to study for something that should've been done almost a year ago when I have work and have other classes I need to focus on for my degree.

Has this happened to anyone else? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
 

drunkenbeagle

Gang Member
No where in the schools FAA approved Training Course Outline (TCO) does it state as a prerequisite that I must hold an instrument rating to begin training. The schools justificstion is that the courses are built so one is working towards both.
I don't think the FAA matters here, if they don't want to do it, they aren't going to do it.

For what it is worth, I did Comm and Inst training at the same time (part 61). The dates on the training don't really matter, so far as the FAA is concerned. (Stage checks checks and other things I'm not familiar with may well matter).

If you are close to having the experience and hours part 61, nothing really stopping you from having another CFI sign you off and doing the ride on your own either. It may be worth running the numbers yourself on that. (Good exercise getting ready for what CFIs study anyway). Worst case, may be some leverage to help argue for your scheduling to be taken care of.
 

KaiGywer

Well-Known Member
If you are close to having the experience and hours part 61, nothing really stopping you from having another CFI sign you off and doing the ride on your own either. It may be worth running the numbers yourself on that. (Good exercise getting ready for what CFIs study anyway). Worst case, may be some leverage to help argue for your scheduling to be taken care of.
Unless his program qualifies him for R-ATP. He’d lose that if he went 61
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
Wish I could remember the details. I did a 141 school for Inst and Comm in the 2001-2003 timeframe as a new college student, before I went on active duty a few years later. I feel like Inst wasn't a prerequisite for commercial (and that I may have done comm first), though I'd have to look in my logbook to see which check ride I completed first. My guess is that you are bumping up against syllabus rules rather than regs. Probably not the end of the world either way, you will get done eventually.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
Wish I could remember the details. I did a 141 school for Inst and Comm in the 2001-2003 timeframe as a new college student, before I went on active duty a few years later. I feel like Inst wasn't a prerequisite for commercial (and that I may have done comm first), though I'd have to look in my logbook to see which check ride I completed first. My guess is that you are bumping up against syllabus rules rather than regs. Probably not the end of the world either way, you will get done eventually.
It's not, but a VFR commercial is pretty limited. I'd imagine it would change what a check ride would consist of if you did it in that order to.... or maybe the standards to which you would then get tested on the instrument later?
 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
Need some help here. I am in a 141 school and my training is being delayed because I have not yet competed my instrument checkride. The FARs state that training can be accomplished simultaneously so long as one checkride is done before the other.

This 141 school is part of a university. I have completed the school course for instrument and have been continuously denied to begin my commercial training. No where in the schools FAA approved Training Course Outline (TCO) does it state as a prerequisite that I must hold an instrument rating to begin training. The schools justificstion is that the courses are built so one is working towards both. I think this is where they firmly believe that I already am completing training simultaneously yet I am denied further commercial training.

As far as matriculation and the university are concerned, I have completed this and have received a letter grade.

The reason for the delay in my instrument checkride is primarily scheduling conflicts and weather. Resulting in a currency lapse for the 3-hr in 60 days rule just to be eligible to take it. This has happened twice and is going on a third. On top of my busy schedule, it is difficult to find time to study for something that should've been done almost a year ago when I have work and have other classes I need to focus on for my degree.

Has this happened to anyone else? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
141 Nonsense. You better call Saul.

As an aside, I don't think matriculation means what you think it means.
 
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bassman0017

New Member
I don't think the FAA matters here, if they don't want to do it, they aren't going to do it.

For what it is worth, I did Comm and Inst training at the same time (part 61). The dates on the training don't really matter, so far as the FAA is concerned. (Stage checks checks and other things I'm not familiar with may well matter).

If you are close to having the experience and hours part 61, nothing really stopping you from having another CFI sign you off and doing the ride on your own either. It may be worth running the numbers yourself on that. (Good exercise getting ready for what CFIs study anyway). Worst case, may be some leverage to help argue for your scheduling to be taken care of.
It is true I can take a check ride anywhere and my program does not care, but I don't have the resources to take it anywhere else. However, they are pretty strict as to knowing who I am examining with before endorsement. They will not, quote, "Write you a blank check" for a check ride. I thought that was a load of crap before I was informed that a checkride failure is a mark on the instructors record as well.
 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
Matriculate: it just means to be enrolled at a college or university. No relation to successiveness or prerequisite other than by implication or assumption.
 
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