How not to land a Shorts 330

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
It’ll be a white paper by Disney that they’ll make a management self-help book:

“The Tarkin Doctrine: Managing Employee’s expectations through unpredictable violence. A more structured approach to failing upward.”
Prison rules!

Beat someone's ass good and righteous and then use his corpse as an example of what happens when you get crossed.

Another reason why I don't have a lot of authority around the shop.
 
One of the very first things the NTSB does is collect all personal devices and then subpoena the phone carrier for all call & data records.

They'll also check your hotel records including the door card swipes.

They'll build a painfully detailed timeline of where you were, when you were in your room, and make assum're mptions of when you were sleeping by the data/call usage on your phone.

Some of the non-relevant stuff won't make the press, but rest assured, someone will read what you wrote, viewed and searched and exactly when you did it.

They've been doing this for more than 10 years now. I get lots of blank looks when I explain this (along with the 117 rules). Forewarned is forearmed. My phone goes into airplane mode exactly in accordance with our company's policy.
While i agree with you that we are monitored all the time, so what? the fact that you perfectly adhered to all the rules (you tucked yourself into bed at the appropriate time) does not absolve you from the fact you screwed up. once youve screwed up you're history, the fact that youve abided by all the rules will not save you. if you think that it does your're mistaken.
 

Richman

Well-Known Member
While i agree with you that we are monitored all the time, so what? the fact that you perfectly adhered to all the rules (you tucked yourself into bed at the appropriate time) does not absolve you from the fact you screwed up. once youve screwed up you're history, the fact that youve abided by all the rules will not save you. if you think that it does your're mistaken.
No, but showing you violated the rules certainly won't help your cause.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
I remember we used to have a real gin-YOU-wine test pilot onboard, but the "ackshually" crowd ran him off for the most part, ha! :)
 

ATN_Pilot

Socialist Pig Member
While i agree with you that we are monitored all the time, so what? the fact that you perfectly adhered to all the rules (you tucked yourself into bed at the appropriate time) does not absolve you from the fact you screwed up. once youve screwed up you're history, the fact that youve abided by all the rules will not save you. if you think that it does your're mistaken.
When you're going into a disciplinary hearing, or more importantly, into an arbitration hearing, whether you followed all rules is absolutely a key element. It acts as a mitigating factor that will cause management and/or your arbitrator to look at you differently. Even FAA inspectors will look differently at someone who is clearly a conscientious pilot. All of these people are people, too, just like you. So they're going to look at each situation based on the circumstances and weigh all sorts of information when determining an outcome. Someone who shut off his phone and got 8 hours sleep is definitely going to be looked at differently than someone who commuted in on a redeye to start a 12 hour duty day, then stays on his phone and only gets 4 hours sleep, and then balls up an airplane the next morning.
 
When you're going into a disciplinary hearing, or more importantly, into an arbitration hearing, whether you followed all rules is absolutely a key element. It acts as a mitigating factor that will cause management and/or your arbitrator to look at you differently. Even FAA inspectors will look differently at someone who is clearly a conscientious pilot. All of these people are people, too, just like you. So they're going to look at each situation based on the circumstances and weigh all sorts of information when determining an outcome. Someone who shut off his phone and got 8 hours sleep is definitely going to be looked at differently than someone who commuted in on a redeye to start a 12 hour duty day, then stays on his phone and only gets 4 hours sleep, and then balls up an airplane the next morning.
Quite frankley, I want to 'take back" some of what I said, you make a very good argument as a pilot advocate/union rep.
 
So in summary you can pretty much get away with a lot of stuff and no one will care, unless there comes a day you crash and hurt/kill yourself and/or others and then all bets are off.
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
So in summary you can pretty much get away with a lot of stuff and no one will care, unless there comes a day you crash and hurt/kill yourself and/or others and then all bets are off.

Fudgin’ isn’t an issue...until it’s an issue. Then it’s a HUGE issue because folks have been fudgin’ for a loooong time and the only way that’s happened is because eeeeverybody knows about it and haven’t said a thing.

So, how many fly the line exactly as they do in the sim (i.e. IAW policies and procedures)?
 

Richman

Well-Known Member
What you don't say you don't have to take back at the hearing.

"Aw man, I've never had a problem in 25 years so I talked to the chief pilot when he called and said it was no problem! Why are they doing this to me!?!"

Cue the....

 
Fudgin’ isn’t an issue...until it’s an issue. Then it’s a HUGE issue because folks have been fudgin’ for a loooong time and the only way that’s happened is because eeeeverybody knows about it and haven’t said a thing.

So, how many fly the line exactly as they do in the sim (i.e. IAW policies and procedures)?

I guess the fudging I was referring to was inflight 'entertainment.' At non-real virtual airlines, pilots have been reading newspapers for ages. I don't see what the difference is between reading the same thing on an iPad in airplane mode with a pre-downladed newspaper for the day. Put another way, I don't think any jetliner has crashed because someone was texting or using the iPad directly leading up to and in the crash sequence.

But I agree with you, it's not a problem until it's a problem. So far the closest a jetliner has come was the MSP fly-past because both pilots were PBS bidding on laptops.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
I guess the fudging I was referring to was inflight 'entertainment.' At non-real virtual airlines, pilots have been reading newspapers for ages. I don't see what the difference is between reading the same thing on an iPad in airplane mode with a pre-downladed newspaper for the day. Put another way, I don't think any jetliner has crashed because someone was texting or using the iPad directly leading up to and in the crash sequence.

But I agree with you, it's not a problem until it's a problem. So far the closest a jetliner has come was the MSP fly-past because both pilots were PBS bidding on laptops.
The copilot has some "pre existing" situations and also broke the first rule of an incident, you're not going to open your front door and "clear things up".

But everything is a causal factor.
 
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