How not to land a Shorts 330

Springer

Well-Known Member
#1
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...es-details-of-2017-shorts-crash-as-vi-449298/







The Shorts 330 freighter, registration N334AC, was operating UPS-contracted flight 1260 from Louisville when it crashed at 06:51 local time while landing on Runway 5 at Charleston on 5 May 2017.

The aircraft was manufactured in 1979 and did not carry a flight data or cockpit voice recorder.

Newly-posted video shows the aircraft approaching the airport in an unusually-steep dose-down angle and then turning left, which the NTSB says was an effort to align with Runway 5.

Posted on "What You Haven't Seen" YouTube channel.

The video, which the Charleston airport confirms came from its cameras, also shows the aircraft slam into the runway and slide left off the runway.

"The airplane struck the runway with the left wing followed by the left side of the fuselage; it slipped off the left side of the runway into the grass and down a hill through trees," says the NTSB.

The aircraft impacted the runway at a 42° left bank, a 14° nose-down pitch and a speed of between 88kt and 96kt (163-178km/h), according to the NTSB.

Steven Altnau, president of Milwaukee-based Air Cargo Carriers, declines to comment about the accident to FlightGlobal, saying the company is waiting until the NTSB issues a final report. The company now operates 19 Shorts 330s, according to Flight Fleets Analyzer.

The main wreckage of the crashed Shorts 330 at Charleston.
 

ATN_Pilot

Socialist Pig Member
#4
Never put anything in writing in any medium that you aren't okay with being put on a courtroom projector screen in open court and put in a public docket on the internet. I had ALPA attorneys tell me that for years. But until you've been deposed and you see opposing counsel with a giant stack of your emails, you really don't get how true that is.
 
#8
Well in this case it's good there's a record of what the FO really saw and felt about the CA. Clearly, the guy had issues.


Another reason to be glad flying for large 121 airlines, the kind of crap displayed in the docket would not be something tolerated at the big airlines.
 

Richman

Well-Known Member
#12
I agree with you, but some of those texts seem like it’s about work rather than “at” work.
One of the very first things the NTSB does is collect all personal devices and then subpoena the phone carrier for all call & data records.

They'll also check your hotel records including the door card swipes.

They'll build a painfully detailed timeline of where you were, when you were in your room, and make assumptions of when you were sleeping by the data/call usage on your phone.

Some of the non-relevant stuff won't make the press, but rest assured, someone will read what you wrote, viewed and searched and exactly when you did it.

They've been doing this for more than 10 years now. I get lots of blank looks when I explain this (along with the 117 rules). Forewarned is forearmed. My phone goes into airplane mode exactly in accordance with our company's policy.
 
#13
One of the very first things the NTSB does is collect all personal devices and then subpoena the phone carrier for all call & data records.

They'll also check your hotel records including the door card swipes.

They'll build a painfully detailed timeline of where you were, when you were in your room, and make assumptions of when you were sleeping by the data/call usage on your phone.

Some of the non-relevant stuff won't make the press, but rest assured, someone will read what you wrote, viewed and searched and exactly when you did it.

They've been doing this for more than 10 years now. I get lots of blank looks when I explain this (along with the 117 rules). Forewarned is forearmed. My phone goes into airplane mode exactly in accordance with our company's policy.

Many phones go into airplane mode. Problem is, most airlines have a free chat function over GoGo wifi that doesn't require an account.

Not saying that I text like that, just saying the capability is there and some guys do.
 

Itchy

Well-Known Member
#14
Really sad accident - they all are-; this one all the more so. It reminds me of that B 52 one with the cowboy captain that many were saying was going to be a problem.

I wonder a) how much feedback management got on this captain, and b) how much got swept under the rug.
 
#15
One of the very first things the NTSB does is collect all personal devices and then subpoena the phone carrier for all call & data records.

They'll also check your hotel records including the door card swipes.

They'll build a painfully detailed timeline of where you were, when you were in your room, and make assumptions of when you were sleeping by the data/call usage on your phone.

Some of the non-relevant stuff won't make the press, but rest assured, someone will read what you wrote, viewed and searched and exactly when you did it.

They've been doing this for more than 10 years now. I get lots of blank looks when I explain this (along with the 117 rules). Forewarned is forearmed. My phone goes into airplane mode exactly in accordance with our company's policy.
I knew they gathered phone records, but had no idea it was that intense. I feel bad for the guy/gal who had to sift through thousands and thousands of nonsense texts to come up with the transcript posted above. Some of those went pretty far back.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
#16
I knew they gathered phone records, but had no idea it was that intense. I feel bad for the guy/gal who had to sift through thousands and thousands of nonsense texts to come up with the transcript posted above. Some of those went pretty far back.
Oh yes!

Your mobile device is a "treasure trove" of information, especially your hotel key card.

You can get that data dump and filter it for relevant times and information with a few seaarch terms fairly easily.
 
#17
Meh, this deal seems to indicate a nice smooth and wide distribution of bad and stupid. I'm pretty sure the worst fail here was not the FO texting, Still, when you're pissed about the ass-clown driver in front of you, the last thing you want to do is start texting about him.

Also, when school kids confuse freight and fright in their elementary writing assignments, extra credit points should be awarded.

Also, this company has some, er, history.

Every accident is a chain of events. Chains are as strong as their weakest link, but if the chain is connected to the ceiling with a loose eye bolt, well...
 
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Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
#18
So how do I put this.

A, uh, friend of mine was a company instructor (at an Alaska 135) and flew with the accident captain once while the captain was in training on a piston single he allegedly had significant flight time in. When my, uh, friend heard about the accident and how it seems to have unfolded he was not in the least surprised, though sad that there was an FO along for the ride.
 
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Richman

Well-Known Member
#19
Many phones go into airplane mode. Problem is, most airlines have a free chat function over GoGo wifi that doesn't require an account.

Not saying that I text like that, just saying the capability is there and some guys do.
This is an equally bad idea. Even for the free texting function, you have to log in, which means someone knows who you are and when you were there.

It's 2018. I continue to be amazed that I have to explain to people that if you log in, scan or swipe anything people know exactly when and where you were.

Example: something bad happens. NTSB gets your hotel records. They show you swiped in at 2300 and checked out at 0655. That's an FAR violation.
 

srn121

Well-Known Member
#20
Well in this case it's good there's a record of what the FO really saw and felt about the CA. Clearly, the guy had issues.


Another reason to be glad flying for large 121 airlines, the kind of crap displayed in the docket would not be something tolerated at the big airlines.
I'd briefly looked into this company as the Shorts looked like a very fun plane to fly, however you really have to wonder in this market what jackass in HR decided it'd be a good idea to not always reimburse for travel for an interview and if they do to do it only up to $300. I hope they're not whining about the pilot shortage when they go out of their way to limit their potential applicants and hires with such an incredibly dumb policy.

Benefits included:
Reimbursement for travel to training (up to $300 after successful check ride)
Although to their credit they are offering a 3 on 1 off rotation which I believe is an improvement over what they were offering in the past.

Still it's a bit crazy to me that they're going to have these guys fly in some of the absolute worst weather and on a bad sleep schedule and not have an auto pilot after reading the chat records. I guess the FO can yell at the pilot about their bank and pitch, but it seems like an awful situation if the pilot's not on top of things as what else can the FO do in a situation like that.
 
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