How many CFIs each class/month?

Visceral

Well-Known Member
Do any of you FSI guys know how many FSI pilots get their CFI certificate each class/month lately? I've read some of the previous posts on the topic, but am looking for current stuff. Along with that, how many are actually offered a job? I'm trying to get a better picture on how many people are competing for slots to teach at the school. With so many in the pool, it wouldn't seem they would hire many of the new CFIs. I'm at the point now where I'll soon be able to leave my current job, but I'm wavering between FSI and ALLATPs. Damned the indecision that too much time brings. Thanks
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
The CFI class sizes vary, typically there is one class per month however I know in June they had two classes, one with about 13 (the maximum) and a class which began mid month and has about 6. It's difficult to say how many in each ground school group get hired. It might be better to look at how many students going in for interviews everntually get hired.....And I think that number is usually around 40-60%. I don't get the feeling that they say, "Ok, right now we're going to take half of this group," rather they judge each applicant on their own merits. I think the waiting list is about 60 people long but in July a stan class is going to be put through dropping that number by about 15. So....It's not an easy decision, I would say from what I've seen those who've done no training prior to their CFI here do seem to struggle a little more than those who've been here. But I think that's due to their lack of familiarity with the "FSI way." I'm a little suprised that you're also considering ALL ATP. It seems as though FSI and ALL ATP are kind of on opposite ends of the spectrum...
 

Visceral

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info Baronman. The reason I am considering ATP is all the multi time you get when you start instructing. I'd also read that FSI had a big pool of CFIs that was swelling even larger. So, I'm trying to keep my options open before making the final decision on which one would suit my future needs. I already visited FSI, so I know its a quality school. I don't know too much about ATP, but I'm doing a lot of research lately. I need to check into the benefits of being employed by FSI vs ATP and make an objective comparison. Thanks again. /ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Actually, I'd say the pool is getting smaller. Well, maybe that it isn't getting any bigger and will start to shrink shortly. I'm sure you've heard about ACA swinging through and picking up a few guys....they're coming back next week for more. Comair was just down here as well (I saw them on the schedule, don't know if they hired or not) I have also heard that some guys are headed off to some corporate gigs.

Where are you now in your ratings?

Good Luck,

Chunk
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
Visceral, I would check on seeing if ATP hires many of their CFI students...(I'm not trying to push FSI). I remember hearing that you do your time with them and then you're gone...I think the reason why so many people want to instruct here at FSI is the amount of multi-time the instructors get...In my case I did all of Step 3 and 4 with the same instructor (58 hours multi). He had 3 other students who did the same. You do the math!!

/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
 

Heat2151

New Member
Hi Guy's,

So what is the CFI hiring process like? is it based on senority
meaning first in line, ability or a combination of both. And how long does it take before they can start to take on students...line ready.



Best Regards,
Heat2151
 

ThreeGreen123

New Member
The CFI hiring process is not too bad. It is based on...4 things. #1 is your score on your CFI checkride. Get 90/90 or higher, and you got a very good shot. #2 is your score on an interview with the center manager and assistant center manager. Generally they ask a few technical questions on VFR maneuvers, and some personal questions like a normal interview. #3 is the presentation, in which you give a 15 minute lesson to the head honchos on a manuver you were assigned the previous day. This is the big one...do well on this and you are more then likely in. #4 is the simulator ride, which generally isn't too bad (just some inst. approaches). So you can say you are really hired on a combination of things...merit, attitude, ability, hard work in the course, and personality. But if you work hard during the course getting hired really isn't a problem at all. Your reputation follows you to the hiring process.

Finally, as you know and has been well published here, there is quite a waiting list. Like Chunk says it may be shrinking in the next 6 months, as ACA and the delta carriers are starting to hire blue shirts like crazy (well, "like crazy" means a lot more then we have seen in a long time). If that hiring continues remains to be seen, but, if that is able to continue and more students start coming here, that list should go down. Right now the wait is probably...9 months to a year from getting hired to getting thru stand (working). Thats just a guess though (its about 60-70 people long). Most people are able to get jobs somewhere else in the meantime, with the training they got here. So, I would have to say overall things are improving here. Its takes time...but we'll all get there. --TG123
 

aviator

New Member
I have never been to ATP so I can't coment on the quality of the school but It is my understanding that they have a similar situation as FSI does with an instructor waiting list. There it is a little different you have to spend an undetermined amount of time at a call center selling ATP programs until an instructor spot opens up.
I quess you can think of it as at least its a job till you start instructing......could be good or bad, I would do some research first.

Good luck!
 

Visceral

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the inputs guys. Chunk, I'm Comm Single Engine/Instrument. I would be enrolling at whatever school for multi and the CFIs. Aviator, the ATP guys going through the ACP program are the ones who get the jobs...at least according to what I've read elsewhere and here. My goal is to not give my money to anyone who won't at least give me a shot at a job. I've visited FSI, but not ATP, and I will do that soon. I'll post anything relevant that I come across that may be of interest to others trying to decide between these two.
 

Heat2151

New Member
TG123,


So if the waiting list is at 60, and this july staderization class will drop the list down to 15.
What will this do, for the CFI per student ratio.? What's is the ratio like now, and will this new influx of CFI's balance things out.?

Visceral - If this helps, I have a good friend, who did his training at ATP and he say's that, they are in the same state as a lot of the major flight programs across the country, since the industry is trying to recover, their is not enough student enrollment to persue intructor training. But this is just one person's opinion, once the industry gets settled in. The hiring across the board we hope, will improve.


Thanks for input.


Best Regards,
Heat2151
 

ThreeGreen123

New Member
Heat,

Oh no the July Stan class will not drop the # to 15, I think whoever said that meant that there would be 15 in the class. Dropping the # on waiting list to 55-60. Each stan class is 15 people large. The instructor/student ratio is poor right now, well, poor compared to the 'old days'. When I started I had 6-7 students, now its....2-3....4 if you are lucky. Again, hopefully, things are improving and that # will get better. With all the instuctors being hired,and more students coming, it may improve steadily. We'll see....

And for FreeWille, stand is a 2-3 week course all the new instructors go thru... those that have been hired in the interview process. Its how the schools "standardizes" all its instructors so we all teach "the flightsafety way", the idea being whoever you get as an instructor you get the same instruction. Sorta works that way, sorta doesn't. Each person is different, but we all try and be the same. Anyway, the day you finish stand you are eligible to get students.
 

kdwilkes

New Member
2-3 students per instructor is good for me though since I am an incoming student. However, in 8 months, I will be hoping for 7-8 students per instructor. Funny how your point-of-view changes regarding the same matter depending on what side you are looking from. Just thought I would give my 2 cents.
 

aviator

New Member
15 instructors would be a pretty big stand class, the last one I heard was more around 7 instructors. Does anyone know if that July class is actually for real or just rumor? They didn't give me the impression that a class would happen until at least the end of summer.......but hey the situation can change almost overnight, be pretty cool if the list started moving again!
 

Heat2151

New Member
"When I started I had 6-7 students, now its....2-3....4 if you are lucky."

TG123,

Having 3 to 4 students seems like a manageable number. But is'nt 6-7 to much for an intructor.? busy yeah, but would'nt it become dangerous if the instructor becomes saturated.?



Best Regards,
Heat2151
 

chunk75

Well-Known Member
Latest Gouge from Head Cheese(s).

Now hear this:

Mr. Skovvgaard (sp?) and Mr. Haarland (again sp?) stopped by the Commercial ground school class today. They said the following:

1 8-person stan class starting the 8th.

2. The pool is 58 (I think) deep.

3. ACA is looking to hire 500 by the end of the year (total from all hiring sources).

4. 12 more instructors have interview dates (ACA).

5. ACA has begun weekly training dates (every Monday is a new class) of 10 pilots.

6. ASA has interview dates for a few (less than 10) CFI's...they weren't positive on the #'s off the top of their heads.

7. Comair stopped by last week, may start inviting CFI's for interviews.

8. Rumor: Comair may be transferring some aircraft to ASA.

9. Chataqua is taking over FL routes from Comair.

10. Other FSI centers are putting feelers out to their corporate customers about our highly qualified instructors looking to find jobs....etc. etc.

11. Some CFI's have left for corporate jobs in the recent past.

12. Groovy new website in the next 6 weeks. (On a separate note, I hear there will be a student only section.)

13. Potential students and tour-taker numbers are all up.

14. They both have an open-door policy.

Things are looking up.. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif ..It's nice to be kept informed. The Navy always had a mushroom policy; keep you in the dark, feed you full of s#*^!
That is all....

Chunk
 

d_gelling

New Member
All Very good news. Thanks for the updates. It's great to see things start to happening again. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
 

pscraig

Well-Known Member
Re: Latest Gouge from Head Cheese(s).

Keep that good news coming! As I am planning to show up around New Years, this is going to be a long year watching all this unfold.....even better when I get there.
 

difete

New Member
ATP\'S and FSI

I am in the same dilema, FSI or ALL ATPS. I got my PPL with my IR. I am still leaning towards ATP's. Fast program. Dont have to move to Vero, can move to Atlanta, more job availability, and Lots of twin time. But in the other hand, FSI has a very good Placement program once they put it up. Ill stick around this post to check more info. I visited Vero and FSI, also Panam. Ill stay with FSI if you ask me about Panam. What to do, WHat to do? Tough Choice.
 

d_gelling

New Member
Re: ATP\'S and FSI

perhaps the best movie soundtrack ever! Oops, perhaps this psot should be in the "Squawk Box" for people to debate.
 

Heat2151

New Member
Re: Latest Gouge from Head Cheese(s).

Chunk,

Appreciate the latest gouge, it's great news, the morale on this forum just skyrocketed. But man, this is killing me. As i'm sitting here reading this, and thinking to myself can anybody invent a time machine that will advance me upto my start date of sept 20. /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

This is great that ACA will pick up 500 and they wont have anytrouble getting more, the only one that surprises me in this group is Chataqua is taking over FL routes from Comair. I tought that they where just a midwest carrier. Guess Delta,
has big plans on their horizon for her regional carriers.

So in this three card monty /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif where does that leave ASA who is a major player and thier pilot hiring.? More CRJ's, new routes and new pilot hiring, with all of us at the end of this pipeline...thing are starting to look pretty damn good.

ACA - Has a Do328 hub here in New York, out of KLGA. I used to stop by the end of runway 4, (The only public area where you could, ever since last year, it's been closed off by the the FAA, NYPD and Army National Guard ) and watch them take of. it used to drive Mrs.Heat crazy, but I never get tired of it. /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

That's what my recruiter said "come join the Navy see the world, and we will feed you a lot of S...... /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif and plenty of it." /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

Best Regards,
Heat2151
 
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