How did you get started?

FalconCapt

New Member
I'm not saying people should stamp into their bosses office and demand an 80% raise... But if people start declining job offers (or not even applying to) companies that don't pay accordingly, then these companies will be forced to raise their pay scales. And forget about the little perks like "the boss buys me drinks" or "I get to go skiing"... Work is NOT a vacation, a Vacation is going where YOU want, when YOU want with who YOU want... Don't confuse the two... No one else in the world will accept employer designated perks in place of payment, why should pilots???

Stay focused, your life will change and that money that isn't important while you are in school or living at home will become omni-present once you are out on your own and have a family.

Target the good companies, stay away from the cheap/shady operators and you will get ahead... Fly for squat wages and you'll get what you bargain for...
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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stay away from the cheap/shady operators and you will get ahead...

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.............like the military
 

FalconCapt

New Member
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with dinner and drinks on the boss each night

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Almost forgot, you should get these... It's called an "Expense Account"!
 

Sig

New Member
Helluva start... weak finish. Didn't mean to be such a turd to ya, Cap'n.

Lemme take stock: I certainly fly twice a week, every once in a while I stay overnight. If I do RON, I return by about 10:00am after an average 1 hour leg. Otherwise I'm home by 4:00pm... two days a week ... and I make more than you AFTER you instructed for 3 years, AND were a "bona fide" pilot ... ANNNNDDDD you call me underpaid?!??

Slack, jack. There ain't too many opportunities like it, and I bet you know it.

You still piss on my job? Bottom line: I enjoy it. I don't think I'm underpaid, given my experience and the plane AND the duties, period. I'm still lucky. Go check the current salaries for freight dogs in Barons... I get to say, "No, we're not going." They don't.

And cut out the boolsheet with the expense account and the digs on the trips! It isn't germane to pull those out right now, you know it isn't. Might as well scoff at me for not having Ops to bitch about, or I haven't arrived until I know what it means to truly hate dispatch... They're completely out of the scope of this job, and therefore aren't missing.

I don't jerk a wrench or even wash/cean the plane- four guys clean it, and a shop maintains it. There's no honeybucket or galley to worry about. I just make sure it looks like it should, I keep the books up and make sure the inspections/ recur ADs / squawks are addressed/fixed/completed. Takes me about an hour a week on the phone (between the shops and the FBO including the pullout calls), and the office is three miles south of the airport... Maybe that clears up my duties; and I don't show my face in the office on weekends and Wednesdays.

All the best, and I hope your lot continues to improve. You had much humbler beginnings than I, so it seems. Makes my future look better already!

I'm lucky. Period.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
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You get paid what your negotiate...

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Ahhh, I just love it when people say this. And its never one of us lowly CFI's...its the people who've already made it.


Guess what happens if a CFI tries to negotiate more pay? They 95% of the time get this response: "Oh? You won't fly for that much? Too bad. Hit the road, I'll find someone who will."

What gives?? What do you think is the best course of action for "negotiating" better pay?
 

mtsu_av8er

Well-Known Member
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What gives?? What do you think is the best course of action for "negotiating" better pay?


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Let's form a CFI union!!!
 

FalconCapt

New Member
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Ahhh, I just love it when people say this. And its never one of us lowly CFI's...its the people who've already made it.


Guess what happens if a CFI tries to negotiate more pay? They 95% of the time get this response: "Oh? You won't fly for that much? Too bad. Hit the road, I'll find someone who will."

What gives?? What do you think is the best course of action for "negotiating" better pay?


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Well how about you start by making yourself worth more than the next guy? I have seen so many "young" CFI's who when they don't have any students leave work to go home or hang out with friends because "they aren't paid to sit in the office"... Well guess what, sitting in the office is exactly where new students come from. Answer the phone, come up with some marketing ideas. Go the extra mile and try to do some extra stuff with your free time. If it gets you more students, it will make the school busier and the boss happier... Guess what? If he wants that to continue, he will pay you more. I would rather employ a guy who is a real "go getter" than one who sits on his ass all the time waiting for things to be handed to them...

Oh, and Sig... Just curious... how old are you?

You can think you are as "cool" as you want... You are still underpaid... And how fast are you building time to move on to a better job?

Remember when I left being a CFI 10 years ago I was making MORE than you are (in today's dollars it was $33,520 using a VERY conservative 2% inflation rate, using a more realiztic 3% it is $36,960 )... But at that point I was building 800+ hours a year, which helped me move on to the exact job I wanted. According to the info you posted about your job, you are averaging about 150-200 hours per year.. See the thing is, you are building time VERY slowly, which means you will be in that job a VERY long time... and at that VERY low pay... But hey, at least you like you job, maybe your landlord will give you a discount on your rent for that very reason.

So think you are as "cool" and as "Slack Jack" as you want... Someone is bending you over and you are smilin' about it... Enjoy the ride...
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
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you are averaging about 150-200 hours per year.. See the thing is, you are building time VERY slowly,

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Hey! That's all I'm getting!
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but you get to blow sh*t up. That makes up for it.


As for what FalconCapt. said - here here!!!

What you described (hanging around the airport all day even if I don't have students) is EXACTLY what I plan on doing - that and possibly having some kind of brochure made up marketing ME - not all the CFI's at my FBO... just me.

I'm dead serious about not only my future in instructing, but making a damned living while doing it.
 

stuckingfk

Well-Known Member
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you are averaging about 150-200 hours per year.. See the thing is, you are building time VERY slowly,

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Hey! That's all I'm getting!


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Yeah, 150-200 hours of shooting the enemies, getting shot at, and still having time to post on JC. I think I'll take your time over any other time
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
When I was a young CFI you couldn't get me to leave the airport! They had a spot on the FBO couch with my name on it.
 

FalconCapt

New Member
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When I was a young CFI you couldn't get me to leave the airport! They had a spot on the FBO couch with my name on it.

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I hear ya'... I was there 7 days a week (I was only required to be there 6 days, but worked the extra day to build time and get students)... Typically I was at the airport 10-12 hours a day. There is a lot to be said for a strong work ethic...
 

C650CPT

Well-Known Member
I third what has been said. The purpose of this site is to help / and inspire new pilots on thier quest here, unfortuantely some want to discount the wisdom and advice when it doesn't bid well. Well the fact about good medicine is that it doesn't always taste good. I think some would be wise to appreciate the experience that is available here and try to learn more from it. This is not a one size fits all kind of business we are in. Life's maturity will show you this.
Let me just add that as falconCapt has encouraged new CFI's to be go getters, don't think that one can slack off just because you've arrived and landed a dream job. Companies will have bad times and if there is a downsize looming the CP will look at his pilot pool and ask himself who is doing what for me, and he is going to choose to keep the people that make his job easier. I know a local company that just experienced this event and the pilot that was laid off was a more senior pilot, no seniority number here. This is a great career field and there are alot of opportunities, but you still have to work for them and earn your place. Good Luck to all ... but we know Luck has nothing to do with it.

Jim
 

FalconCapt

New Member
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don't think that one can slack off just because you've arrived and landed a dream job. Companies will have bad times and if there is a downsize looming the CP will look at his pilot pool and ask himself who is doing what for me, and he is going to choose to keep the people that make his job easier.

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This is EXACTLY right... Our company utilizes a program called Relative Performance Assessment, which virtual rates you against all of your peers. This is used in every department in our company and is also required in the Flight Department. If there is cut backs, they will use these ratings to determine who stays and who goes. That is the thing I love about Corporate Aviation, the hard workers get rewarded and the slackers don't... This forces you to keep on the leading edge of everything if you want to survive... And in this business, being on the leading edge is where you want to be... Simple as that...
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
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I hear ya'... I was there 7 days a week (I was only required to be there 6 days, but worked the extra day to build time and get students)... Typically I was at the airport 10-12 hours a day. There is a lot to be said for a strong work ethic...


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So was I. In fact, I spent about 240 hrs. a month at the airport from March to November of last year. I was darn lucky if I flew 50 hrs. a month. So maybe I'm a little disenchanted with living at the airport, since it sure didn't pay off for me.

Anyhoo, that was when I was flying with a shady, piece of crap flight school based in a single-wide trailer. I've moved onto a better place now, so we'll see what happens there.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
don't think that one can slack off just because you've arrived and landed a dream job. Companies will have bad times and if there is a downsize looming the CP will look at his pilot pool and ask himself who is doing what for me, and he is going to choose to keep the people that make his job easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is EXACTLY right... Our company utilizes a program called Relative Performance Assessment, which virtual rates you against all of your peers. This is used in every department in our company and is also required in the Flight Department. If there is cut backs, they will use these ratings to determine who stays and who goes. That is the thing I love about Corporate Aviation, the hard workers get rewarded and the slackers don't... This forces you to keep on the leading edge of everything if you want to survive... And in this business, being on the leading edge is where you want to be... Simple as that...

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Only problem with the RPA-style of have's and have-not's is it creates an "every man for himself" mentality. Come drawdown time, if you're not the guy working 24/7, and on call at all other times............watch out.
 

FalconCapt

New Member
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Only problem with the RPA-style of have's and have-not's is it creates an "every man for himself" mentality. Come drawdown time, if you're not the guy working 24/7, and on call at all other times............watch out.

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You are right... But all of our ratings are tracked, quarter to quarter and year to year... After a few years it becomes very evident who the workers are and who the slackers are... There is no fear if you are a hard worker... if you are a slacker, well... I'd be "watchin' my six"...
 

C650CPT

Well-Known Member
I think we all can see a butt kisser for who he is, what I believe is a team player who does his job and helps out in other areas is a what we call a "keeper". The thing about corporate that is a little different than the airlines is you have to spend a lot of time with the other pilot. You have to get along and trust the other guy and have mutual respect, and a butt kisser gets no respect. Most corporate jobs do a good job at screening pilots so that they match the corporation's character and the flight dept. character.
 

RD

New Member
How did I get started?
Always have a positive & helpful attitude.
Network, network, network.
If you really want "in", be flexible. I was hired for my first (current) flying job last fall with about 900TT, 200 multi, 80 turbine. Hired as "Chief Pilot" for new flight dept with a 182 and King Air 90. (50K) How did this happen? (See above).
Don't let anyone tell you it can't happen.
FYI - I don't gripe about cleaning up the plane or doing paperwork.
Someone may say that they have a better gig, but I feel pretty lucky.
 

Sir_Captain

New Member
Hi all you guys,

I joined this site to seek advice from the proffessionals because I see what a good job you do at it.

I have posted on another topic but it hasn't gone so well because I probably came accross the wrong way and I apologize if anyone has found offense or misread me.

Any ways I read this thread and I'm very glad I did because I am seeking some direction. I have thought about the corporate flying, i'm not sure what fractional is yet but perhaps you could enlighten me.

I wanted to ask particularly FalconCapt, C650Cpt, and RD what path you would recommend for a Comm/Inst/ME rated student considering corporate/fractional flying. I have been with comair academy and am a bit disillusioned because I forfeit my interview for an instructor position when I took my ME training at another FBO to save a fair amount of money.
IF you could please lend some advice and opinion on my post I would greatly appreciate it. Does anyone know how the corporate/fractional areas of aviation are in Miami, Fl, or is this a not so good place for it? Could anyone provide some leads to finding information on flying EMS (i think that's what it's called)? Basically I'm just starting out and ready to begin building hours towards a job with a liveable wage, that's why the corporate /fractional ops sound appealing to me. Thank you once again gentlemen for your help and patience.

Oncemore I apologize if at times I seemed testy or unwilling to accept criticism, it is hard to gauge a person by internet.

Please chime in, thanks!
 
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