Horizon

ASpilot2be

Qbicle seat warmer
Oh, well in that case, they'll not park any for a while. I doubt it, they have to figure out how to feed the VX operation. OO is easy in the short term but expensive...
I was being sarcastic about the holiday thing. Still trying to learn as much as I can about what's happening before I begin.
 
Complacency with how a business unit is run spread over decades combined with consistently weak management teams. That what this is, nothing more, nothing less. The problems are expansion problems not shrinking problems. Financially deep pockets with a place in the investment group. AAG won't fly with out Horizon Air feed...

I was being sarcastic about the holiday thing. Still trying to learn as much as I can about what's happening before I begin.
 

ASpilot2be

Qbicle seat warmer
Complacency with how a business unit is run spread over decades combined with consistently weak management teams. That what this is, nothing more, nothing less. The problems are expansion problems not shrinking problems. Financially deep pockets with a place in the investment group. AAG won't fly with out Horizon Air feed...
Interesting. Good to know. Thank you for the info.
 
Can anyone confirm a rumor I heard: all Horizon FA schedules have been dropped and they have all been put on reserve, due to the lack of pilots, cancellations, and lack of lines?
 

WS

Well-Known Member
Can anyone confirm a rumor I heard: all Horizon FA schedules have been dropped and they have all been put on reserve, due to the lack of pilots, cancellations, and lack of lines?
While there are definitely a lot more reserve lines for FAs, I don't think ALL FAs have been put on reserve. All the pairings on my line still have FA names on them...
 

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
So it's no secret that SkyWest is covering a good portion of our flying as we temporarily park planes to "recover". Why on earth are they using the 50 seat jets to fill in for the base to base flying and shuttle routes that are All full flights? I know that Skywest can operate into the smaller airports we serve, so why not give them the lower volume routes on the planes that carry less people? It just blows my mind that we now only operate two or three flights a day between GEG/PDX, GEG/SEA and PDX/SEA and the rest are the tiny little 50 seaters.

As I'm waiting in the gate area for a long shot at the CRJ jump seat to commute (which is a PITA now btw), I have to answer questions from pissed off passengers as to why the gate agent is asking for volunteers every flight to stay behind for vouchers and other marketing gimmicks. On top of that, our crews are now deadheading on the majority of these flights, full flight crews, causing even less revenue passengers to get onboard. As I've stated before, I'm no where near a business major type mentality, but there has to be a better way to integrate Skywest into the equation...
 

word302

Well-Known Member
So it's no secret that SkyWest is covering a good portion of our flying as we temporarily park planes to "recover". Why on earth are they using the 50 seat jets to fill in for the base to base flying and shuttle routes that are All full flights? I know that Skywest can operate into the smaller airports we serve, so why not give them the lower volume routes on the planes that carry less people? It just blows my mind that we now only operate two or three flights a day between GEG/PDX, GEG/SEA and PDX/SEA and the rest are the tiny little 50 seaters.

As I'm waiting in the gate area for a long shot at the CRJ jump seat to commute (which is a PITA now btw), I have to answer questions from pissed off passengers as to why the gate agent is asking for volunteers every flight to stay behind for vouchers and other marketing gimmicks. On top of that, our crews are now deadheading on the majority of these flights, full flight crews, causing even less revenue passengers to get onboard. As I've stated before, I'm no where near a business major type mentality, but there has to be a better way to integrate Skywest into the equation...
Judging by the decision-making trend that your management has made, are you really that surprised?
 

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
Judging by the decision-making trend that your management has made, are you really that surprised?
Well, I'm quite new to this place but it's not giving me the warm and fuzzy feel good from the get go that's for sure. Luckily the OO guys try their best to get us on the jump, about a 50/50 chance with W/B. It will be a serious challenge once alternate fuel is required daily unfortunately.
 
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SurferLucas

Southern Gentleman
Judging by the decision-making trend that your management has made, are you really that surprised?
Let's be clear here...this was not just QX management, but AS management as well...more so AS dictating to QX what to do. AS brought in a megalomaniac who's negotiating tactic was "It's my way or we'll shut it down"...someone who wouldn't know the meaning of the word truth, even if it had him bent over and giving him the business.

AS is throwing money at Horizon now...but unless they can pass a flow through agreement, get pay ABOVE other regionals, and stop with the blatant disregard for our contract...then I'm afraid the AS pilot's will suffer the same fate as QX.

Well, I'm quite new to this place but it's not giving me the warm and fuzzy feel good from the get go that's for sure. Luckily the OO guys try their best to get us on the jump of those 200's, it will be a serious challenge once alternate fuel is required daily unfortunately.
It's going to be really "fun" when OO planes are diverting to BLI, PDX, YKM, etc because SEA/PDX/other known CAT III airports go below their landing mins...AS thinks with their pocketbook, and those temp inversion days where the fog hangs out for a week, that will put a big dent in it.
 

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
Let's be clear here...this was not just QX management, but AS management as well...more so AS dictating to QX what to do. AS brought in a megalomaniac who's negotiating tactic was "It's my way or we'll shut it down"...someone who wouldn't know the meaning of the word truth, even if it had him bent over and giving him the business.

AS is throwing money at Horizon now...but unless they can pass a flow through agreement, get pay ABOVE other regionals, and stop with the blatant disregard for our contract...then I'm afraid the AS pilot's will suffer the same fate as QX.



It's going to be really "fun" when OO planes are diverting to BLI, PDX, YKM, etc because SEA/PDX/other known CAT III airports go below their landing mins...AS thinks with their pocketbook, and those temp inversion days where the fog hangs out for a week, that will put a big dent in it.
Well I selfishly feel lucky for getting PDX in Novemeber so I don't have commuter anxiety through the winter. Just hope I don't miss a commute and get fired in the meantime!
 

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
Let's be clear here...this was not just QX management, but AS management as well...more so AS dictating to QX what to do. AS brought in a megalomaniac who's negotiating tactic was "It's my way or we'll shut it down"...someone who wouldn't know the meaning of the word truth, even if it had him bent over and giving him the business.

AS is throwing money at Horizon now...but unless they can pass a flow through agreement, get pay ABOVE other regionals, and stop with the blatant disregard for our contract...then I'm afraid the AS pilot's will suffer the same fate as QX.



It's going to be really "fun" when OO planes are diverting to BLI, PDX, YKM, etc because SEA/PDX/other known CAT III airports go below their landing mins...AS thinks with their pocketbook, and those temp inversion days where the fog hangs out for a week, that will put a big dent in it.
I don't think a flow will ever happen. With AS aquiring VX, another relatively young pilot group with low attrition due to retirement. They don't need even close to the amount of pilots that the big 3 will need in the next ten years. I ran the math, it was 15% vs upwards of 60% at the other majors... A flow will just be a way to keep guys stuck at Horizon and on regional pay, just as they have been through the lost decade because movement will not be as aggressive. But again, I could be way off. Who knows, this industry confuses the crap out of me
 
Well I selfishly feel lucky for getting PDX in Novemeber so I don't have commuter anxiety through the winter. Just hope I don't miss a commute and get fired in the meantime!
You'll be fine. Quick story:

I'd worked at QX for 6 months, and got a letter saying "Congrats! You're done with probation!" I was confused, because probation is 12 months long. I brought the letter to the base chief, he told me 'congrats' and signed it for me. 6 months later, I got a letter saying "You're halfway done with probation, let us know if you have questions." At that point, I felt pretty secure. If they want to fire you, they'll have to find out if you're on probation first. That's apparently more complex than it sounds.
I don't think a flow will ever happen. With AS aquiring VX, another relatively young pilot group with low attrition due to retirement. They don't need even close to the amount of pilots that the big 3 will need in the next ten years. I ran the math, it was 15% vs upwards of 60% at the other majors... A flow will just be a way to keep guys stuck at Horizon and on regional pay, just as they have been through the lost decade because movement will not be as aggressive. But again, I could be way off. Who knows, this industry confuses the crap out of me
It's not a matter of total numbers, it's a matter of ratios. QX has 700-ish pilots right now, and AS + VX are going to hire 380 next year, according to the most recent info. If they did a 50% flow like Envoy/AA, that's 165 from QX. The top 150 aren't going anywhere, so one year's worth of flow would get most of the Captains who wanted it a job. It depends on the percentage, obviously... but QX is still small enough that a handful of numbers can have a big impact.
 

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
You'll be fine. Quick story:

I'd worked at QX for 6 months, and got a letter saying "Congrats! You're done with probation!" I was confused, because probation is 12 months long. I brought the letter to the base chief, he told me 'congrats' and signed it for me. 6 months later, I got a letter saying "You're halfway done with probation, let us know if you have questions." At that point, I felt pretty secure. If they want to fire you, they'll have to find out if you're on probation first. That's apparently more complex than it sounds.

It's not a matter of total numbers, it's a matter of ratios. QX has 700-ish pilots right now, and AS + VX are going to hire 380 next year, according to the most recent info. If they did a 50% flow like Envoy/AA, that's 165 from QX. The top 150 aren't going anywhere, so one year's worth of flow would get most of the Captains who wanted it a job. It depends on the percentage, obviously... but QX is still small enough that a handful of numbers can have a big impact.
But we both know they won't do that, because they will shoot their own feed in the foot. Say 170 flow to AS, and another 150-200 go to the other majors that are hiring 1000 plus in the near future. Now they're right back at square one with keeping QX staffed. If flow exists, there will be some sort of caveat with incoming pilots to QX vs outgoing. Just like right now with this guaranteed interview, guys get the interview and some don't even get the job. The ones that do sit in a pool for months on end. The reason for that is they don't want to strip their feed, which they have managed to do anyway with questionable management tactics.

The majority of guys I have flown with so far are done with AAG. They all have apps out at Delta, United and FedEx. They don't even want to go to AS because they know the same environment will exist and the only difference will be they are flying a 73 vs a turboprop.

I'm not saying I agree with that mentality, nor am I saying it's a bad idea. I just never would have though looking from the outside that working for QX would make people so anti-AAG that they don't even submit their app or use their guaranteed interview.

I have just a few friends at Envoy, they don't feel quite as harsh towards their mainline counterpart/management as people here do. And now AS seniority management pilots are brought in to clean up the mess in aisle 9, it seems to be a finger pointing game with the wrong intentions for a recovery already. I really do want to be positive and knowing that I just scored my hometown as a base, I will do my best to do so. It's just everyday, a new article or email comes out that just doesn't jive with what should be happening at an airline trying to boost recruitment and quality of life for its employees. Plus when the guys that haven't logged hours since 2002 start telling me they're sorting their logbooks out, it's eye opening.

I know I'm just preaching to the choir here, but they should at least re-think the way they integrate SkyWest into our system. Pilots talk to each other and their friends that are looking to break into the 121 world. Telling my friends it is now harder to commute from Portland to Spokane than it is to Chicago or Los Angeles is something I honestly have to disclose. It sucks not being able reference my friends to the place I work, but at this point in time that wouldn't be the right thing to do as a friend.

However, the Q400 is the most fun and interesting plane I have flown yet, every day I try to not screw something up or not get bit in the a$$ by the plane lol. It certainly keeps one on their toes for sure!
 
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word302

Well-Known Member
Let's be clear here...this was not just QX management, but AS management as well...more so AS dictating to QX what to do. AS brought in a megalomaniac who's negotiating tactic was "It's my way or we'll shut it down"...someone who wouldn't know the meaning of the word truth, even if it had him bent over and giving him the business.

AS is throwing money at Horizon now...but unless they can pass a flow through agreement, get pay ABOVE other regionals, and stop with the blatant disregard for our contract...then I'm afraid the AS pilot's will suffer the same fate as QX.



It's going to be really "fun" when OO planes are diverting to BLI, PDX, YKM, etc because SEA/PDX/other known CAT III airports go below their landing mins...AS thinks with their pocketbook, and those temp inversion days where the fog hangs out for a week, that will put a big dent in it.
Been flying in the NW for a few years now. Have never not gotten in anywhere with CAT II. I can count on 1 hand the times I’ve even needed CAT II.
 
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