"Hold for release"

Looking4Higher

Well-Known Member
I recieved an IFR clearance on the ground the other day from Harrisburg (PA) approach control. I did not recieve a void time nor did I get a hold for release instruction. I took off from THV (York, PA) under VFR conditions and contacted Harrisburg Appr. on the proper freq. The controller said, " In the future, you should get a release on the ground before departure". He didn't make a big deal about it but I thought I was in the right since I didn't recieve a hold for release clearance. If anyone has any thoughts please share them. Thanks. Meanwhile, I'll be filling out a NASA!:panic:
 

tgrayson

New Member
I recieved an IFR clearance on the ground the other day from Harrisburg (PA) approach control. I did not recieve a void time nor did I get a hold for release instruction. I took off from THV (York, PA) under VFR conditions and contacted Harrisburg Appr. on the proper freq. The controller said, " In the future, you should get a release on the ground before departure". He didn't make a big deal about it but I thought I was in the right since I didn't recieve a hold for release clearance. If anyone has any thoughts please share them. Thanks. Meanwhile, I'll be filling out a NASA!:panic:

According to the AIM, you only "hold for release" when instructed to do so. I would have departed also. Controller screw-up, IMO.

One controller told me of a pilot he gave a clearance to but with no clearance void time. After receiving the clearance, the pilot went across the street and had breakfast. In the meantime, the controller was getting frantic because he had to hold the airspace open for half an hour. The other controllers laughed, understanding that the fault lay with the controller, rather than the pilot.
 

chrisatc

New Member
I recieved an IFR clearance on the ground the other day from Harrisburg (PA) approach control. I did not recieve a void time nor did I get a hold for release instruction. I took off from THV (York, PA) under VFR conditions and contacted Harrisburg Appr. on the proper freq. The controller said, " In the future, you should get a release on the ground before departure". He didn't make a big deal about it but I thought I was in the right since I didn't recieve a hold for release clearance. If anyone has any thoughts please share them. Thanks. Meanwhile, I'll be filling out a NASA!:panic:
If the controller did not say hold for release, then the clearance WAS your release. This was controller error. Anytime I issue a clearance, I ask the pilot when he will be ready to go so as to issue an appropriate void time or else hold for release and call me when ready to depart.

Chris
 

Bernoulli Fan

Controller
The same thing happened to me last night! Except the controller did make a big deal of it, threatening pilot deviation. Does SoCal do it differently or what?

I was at KCRQ after the tower had closed (airspace becomes G), got my clearance from TRACON over the phone. The clearance definitely did not include "hold for release." IMC prevailed, but I don't think that makes a difference, since we were in uncontrolled airspace.

As I made the call for departure on the CTAF, the SoCal controller who was monitoring came on and said I should have held for release. So I got my release and took off, but then as he handed me off to the next frequency, he made another big deal out of it, so I was convinced I had done something wrong.

As far as I can tell, I didn't, but I'd appreciate any input.
 

chrisatc

New Member
The same thing happened to me last night! Except the controller did make a big deal of it, threatening pilot deviation. Does SoCal do it differently or what?

I was at KCRQ after the tower had closed (airspace becomes G), got my clearance from TRACON over the phone. The clearance definitely did not include "hold for release." IMC prevailed, but I don't think that makes a difference, since we were in uncontrolled airspace.

As I made the call for departure on the CTAF, the SoCal controller who was monitoring came on and said I should have held for release. So I got my release and took off, but then as he handed me off to the next frequency, he made another big deal out of it, so I was convinced I had done something wrong.

As far as I can tell, I didn't, but I'd appreciate any input.
At A80 (Atlanta Tracon) when you are issued a clearance, you will get a clearance void time or hold for release. If you receive a clearance without being told "hold for release" then you are released. I do not believe the controller has a leg to stand on if he issued a clearance without a hold for release.

Chris
 

ATLTRACON

MODERATOR
Here's my two cents, and it looks alot like chrisatc's, though I hate to admit it.

ANYTIME I give a clearance off of an uncontrolled field, I tell the pilot "Hold for release advise number one AT the runway ready for departure". I do not like to give void times as this ties up the airport as well as I have had numerous times where the pilot does not get off in time and now I have an airfield that I can do nothing with until I hunt down the pilot. If I wait until the pilot tells me that he is number one at the end of the runway, the worst I have is the airport tied up for a few minutes.

If the controller did not give you a void time or a hold for release then you were, in fact, released for departure and the controller was in the wrong for chastising you.

damn, I hate to agree with Chris.:banghead:
 

coops2k

New Member
Here's my two cents, and it looks alot like chrisatc's, though I hate to admit it.

ANYTIME I give a clearance off of an uncontrolled field, I tell the pilot "Hold for release advise number one AT the runway ready for departure". I do not like to give void times as this ties up the airport as well as I have had numerous times where the pilot does not get off in time and now I have an airfield that I can do nothing with until I hunt down the pilot. If I wait until the pilot tells me that he is number one at the end of the runway, the worst I have is the airport tied up for a few minutes.

If the controller did not give you a void time or a hold for release then you were, in fact, released for departure and the controller was in the wrong for chastising you.

damn, I hate to agree with Chris.:banghead:
I don't know who Chris is :LOL:

But I have to agree with you on this. If I can talk to the A/C it is HFR, if it is via phone or FS, then a void time is issued, even if the pilot said he is ready to go.
 

Orange Anchor

New Member
If the controller did not give you a void time or a hold for release then you were, in fact, released for departure and the controller was in the wrong for chastising you.
.:banghead:
What about this? We are given our clearance yesterday to an ATL area airport which was under the TFR established when Bush landed at Dobbins. I knew of the TFR and asked clearance if we were released to an airport that was CLOSED. His response was, "we don't have any info on closed airports or TFRs so you are released."

How can you be cleared to an airport that is closed? (never had this one happen before)
 

chrisatc

New Member
What about this? We are given our clearance yesterday to an ATL area airport which was under the TFR established when Bush landed at Dobbins. I knew of the TFR and asked clearance if we were released to an airport that was CLOSED. His response was, "we don't have any info on closed airports or TFRs so you are released." I think had the controller checked his traffic management messages, he would have seen that the airport was closed.

How can you be cleared to an airport that is closed? (never had this one happen before)
You can land at a closed airport...but there are consequences :drool:

It sounds like this controller just wanted to get you on your way and out of his airspace and out of his hair. But without knowing more info, I am only speculating.

By the way, we hate it when the TFR's go into effect. They are a real pain to deal with.

Chris/A80
 

Orange Anchor

New Member
You can land at a closed airport...but there are consequences :drool:

It sounds like this controller just wanted to get you on your way and out of his airspace and out of his hair. But without knowing more info, I am only speculating.

By the way, we hate it when the TFR's go into effect. They are a real pain to deal with.

Chris/A80
But you can't penetrate the TFR and when I called the tower at PDK via phone to verify their status, they said indeed they were closed and not accepting any arrivals.

And yes, I imagine everyone has a bit of heartburn with the TFRs, especially in the big cities.

so we waited and then launched. Interesting afternoon. The big boys at ATL were all holding at arrival fixes due to wx and when we got near PDK the winds were rompin' and stompin' out of the west at 28 gusting to 44. We listened to a couple of Lears land on 27 and 34 but it made no sense to me so we held.

I figured that even if we did make an approach and land, it would be ugly and while you could have a good story about what a stellar aviator you are, if anything goes wrong someone is going to ask why you made the approach in such conditions. We held for about :10 and tower said they had a Level 5 TS over the field. Held for about :10 and when we landed it was just heavy rain.

It happens time and time again.. wait :15-20 and the nasty stuff most often moves on leaving a mostly non-event for landing.
 

chrisatc

New Member
But you can't penetrate the TFR and when I called the tower at PDK via phone to verify their status, they said indeed they were closed and not accepting any arrivals.

And yes, I imagine everyone has a bit of heartburn with the TFRs, especially in the big cities.

so we waited and then launched. Interesting afternoon. The big boys at ATL were all holding at arrival fixes due to wx and when we got near PDK the winds were rompin' and stompin' out of the west at 28 gusting to 44. We listened to a couple of Lears land on 27 and 34 but it made no sense to me so we held.

I figured that even if we did make an approach and land, it would be ugly and while you could have a good story about what a stellar aviator you are, if anything goes wrong someone is going to ask why you made the approach in such conditions. We held for about :10 and tower said they had a Level 5 TS over the field. Held for about :10 and when we landed it was just heavy rain.

It happens time and time again.. wait :15-20 and the nasty stuff most often moves on leaving a mostly non-event for landing.

Sounds like you are the "old pilot" and not the "bold pilot". I applaud you for that because we see too many of the latter. And sooner or later, their luck WILL run out.
 

Orange Anchor

New Member
Sounds like you are the "old pilot" and not the "bold pilot". I applaud you for that because we see too many of the latter. And sooner or later, their luck WILL run out.
Got my medals. Got my ATP. Got the hours. So, no.. nothing to prove. And the old axiom still works and that a good airman never gets into a situation where he has to demonstrate his/her max skills.

Figure the best potential upside versus the worse potential downside and the picture changes.
 
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