Good thing it wasn't a bomb run...

ChasenSFO

hen teaser
USN/USMC still flying them. Along with Iranians, South Koreans.
The Iranians even gave some of them the Blue Angels upgrade:


I honestly often dream of the day we are on good enough terms with Iran that I can spend a few days taking photos at the major airports in that nation. From F-14s to 707s buzzing around and much more traffic than most African and Middle Eastern airports, there is no place like it on earth.
 

Flyinthrew

Well-Known Member
They don't have GPS waypoints. I'd challenge anybody here to pilotage in a 6 ship at 300 knots in the Swiss country side to the right town at the right time.

Also in their defense...It's Switzerland. Neutrality is kinda their thing. If I were fiercely neutral, I'd probably not be fiercely training in my weapons system.
 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
They don't have GPS waypoints. I'd challenge anybody here to pilotage in a 6 ship at 300 knots in the Swiss country side to the right town at the right time.

Also in their defense...It's Switzerland. Neutrality is kinda their thing. If I were fiercely neutral, I'd probably not be fiercely training in my weapons system.
The Swiss are not typically known to get lost easily... on foot or aloft. And no matter how many ships there are in a flight, while in formation, the only one who has to know how to navigate is lead. Plus, you know, they do have iPhones, Garmin handhelds, apple watches, etc, etc. if there is any doubt. The whole country is about the size of some counties in the US, and one can fairly certainly assume all the pilots grew up and lived their lives' thus far in that geography. According to the article, the lead grew up in the town the flight were to supposed to overfly. Instead they flew over a much bigger village about 5 miles WSW that looks very little like the intended village. There are no other villages nearby that could have been confused. I think this all boiled down to some sort of anchoring bias or decoy effect centered around the tent that was set up in the wrong village.
The only place in which it's acceptable for a pilot (especially a flight lead) to get lost is inside a Vegas casino - or perhaps suburban cul-de-sac, beige-house hell.
 
Last edited:

Nark

Sheepdog
The Swiss are not typically known to get lost easily... on foot or aloft. And no matter how many ships there are in a flight, while in formation, the only one who has to know how to navigate is lead. Plus, you know, they do have iPhones, Garmin handhelds, apple watches, etc, etc. if there is any doubt. The whole country is about the size of some counties in the US, and one can fairly certainly assume all the pilots grew up and lived their lives' thus far in that geography. According to the article, the lead grew up in the town the flight were to supposed to overfly. Instead they flew over a much bigger village about 5 miles WSW that looks very little like the intended village. There are no other villages nearby that could have been confused. I think this all boiled down to some sort of anchoring bias or decoy effect centered around the tent that was set up in the wrong village.
The only place in which it's acceptable for a pilot (especially a flight lead) to get lost is inside a Vegas casino - or perhaps suburban cul-de-sac, beige-house hell.
Yes, go on. Please tell us how to fly multi ship / formation.

It’s not like any of us have hundreds of hours doing it.
Please , enlighten us.
 

JordanD

Honorary Member
The Iranians even gave some of them the Blue Angels upgrade:


I honestly often dream of the day we are on good enough terms with Iran that I can spend a few days taking photos at the major airports in that nation. From F-14s to 707s buzzing around and much more traffic than most African and Middle Eastern airports, there is no place like it on earth.
Don’t hold your breath :p
 

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
On the subject of F5s...

@MikeD - did anyone ever buy the F-20 Tigershark? As I recall, that was a pretty badass airplane and it outperformed expectations...but my memory is fuzzy due to toluene fumes from building the Testors plastic models of said airplane...

EDIT - okay, I know they didn't, but I'm pretty sure Mike's got a decent story or two about it....
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
On the subject of F5s...

@MikeD - did anyone ever buy the F-20 Tigershark? As I recall, that was a pretty badass airplane and it outperformed expectations...but my memory is fuzzy due to toluene fumes from building the Testors plastic models of said airplane...

EDIT - okay, I know they didn't, but I'm pretty sure Mike's got a decent story or two about it....
The Tigershark’s performance (much like the Arrow) is based mostly off inflation by fanboys and internet chat rooms vs actual reality.

It was at the time competitive only with the F-16A’s we were offering for second rate foreign sales with de-tuned performance. That’s mostly because it was a purist version of the Pierre Sprey model of “no gold plated stuff just pure light weight day fighter.” It was never intended to be or turn into what the Vipers/Hornets of today turned into and more to the point it would have had a much more difficult time trying to do so as it’s available space, cooling capacity, and power generating capability was less than the Viper or the later Hornet.

The second the US congress agreed to allow our foreign second tier partners like Turkey and other F-5 users to buy the same full rate block F-16s/18s we were getting there was no chance any of them were going to opt for the F-20. Because buying one offered nothing in logistical or training commonality options through Foreign Military Sales programs. So you’d have to do more than just buy it, you’d have to invent the training and maintenance program for it. Even having Yeager shmoozing some Arab Generals or Saudi prince as a face-man for it wasn’t going to clear that hurdle.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
Is that one of the MiG-28s a defector brought over in the ‘80s?


Edit: I see @Maximillian_Jenius beat me to it.
You and @Maximillian_Jenius are both wrong....

See little known fact but the Mig-28 had a variable sized horizontal stab. That allowed the F-14 to be 1.5 meters canopy to canopy in an inverted dive without causing a midair that would have resulted with an F-5.


In all seriousness the most offensive part of that photo for me is one the greatest Navy paint jobs in its history ended up on a bunch of reservist F-5 aggressors instead of active units. The Rhino would look badass in a Sundowner scheme.

Oh and here is the former pride of the Philippine Air Force.... now they slowly fall apart and die at the end of a ramp in what used to be Clark AFB.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
Yes, go on. Please tell us how to fly multi ship / formation.

It’s not like any of us have hundreds of hours doing it.
Please , enlighten us.
Chalk 1 - “Nightmare/Fumble/whatever that CAB uses”

Chalk 2 - hasn’t been paying attention to navigation....”ffffffffffml”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Top