Future of SWA

fly22

Well-Known Member
I'm a Finance major and have always been impressed with SWA financials, but can they keep it up now that they are so much larger? They haven't been "big" for very long as opposed to other airlines that have gone through really bad times but hang in there. What do you guys think will happen to their LUV.
 

NWA_Flyer

New Member
Just like everybody else. They'll hire some crap executives that know nothing, and will turn the airline into a nose dive. They'll be in dire need for money, FAs, Pilots, CSAs... will be layed-off, they'll picket raise hell. And the friendly service we know and love will die.

Nothing is ever what it seems.

But hey, I hope to God they can keep this up though. Kudos to SWA.
 

tonyw

Well-Known Member
Check out today's Wall Street Journal. Here are a few excerpts.

Inside Southwest Airlines, Storied Culture Feels Strains

DALLAS -- One afternoon in February, a group of 40 flight attendants gathered at Dallas Love Field to vent their frustration with their employer. They carried signs declaring "Spread the LUV" -- their employer's stock symbol -- and handed out cards to travelers demanding "Give Our Flight Attendants a Break!"

Their bosses wanted to boost their workday to 13 hours from 10½. The attendants also didn't like the lack of meal breaks and the fact that they didn't get paid when their planes sat idle -- even though they spent that time cleaning the cabins.

This display of dissatisfaction from the flight attendants would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. That's because they work for Southwest Airlines.

Southwest's labor unions have become more vocal and aggressive. Workers who scrimp and sweat to boost earnings are seeing less return from profit sharing and a pummeled stock. And some longtime employees say that after years of pushing themselves to increase productivity, they simply can't give any more.

"We have been there for them," says Karen Amos, a 26-year Southwest veteran who took part in the flight-attendant protest. "There comes a time when it becomes too much."

Many veterans of the airline have complained that they have worked increasingly hard to boost productivity and profits, but without matching pay raises.

Lately, unions have increasingly sought "big airline" pay to match the airline's growing success, as opposed to the old days, when they'd settle for other incentives to help their underdog airline fly higher. In 1994, for example, in exchange for a stock-option award in their contract, pilots agreed to a five-year wage freeze that would help the company keep costs in check.

Unions are showing more frustration during negotiations, unlike the old days, when deals would generally be made more quickly and amicably. In the summer of 2001, ramp workers picketed near company headquarters with signs reading, "Record Profits Empty Pockets."

Meanwhile, the negotiations with the flight attendants have entered their 13th month. Management dropped the proposal about increasing daily hours, but the two sides are far apart on other issues. "In the old days," says Ms. Amos, "they would have negotiated more fairly."
 

NWA_Flyer

New Member
Yes, I heard about that. SWA employees do not get paid very much, considering what most other airlines in that area pay their employees. No wonder they have all that cash.
 

fly22

Well-Known Member
You guys really need to study the depth of SWA in 1994-1995 Senior Southwest pilots recieved 10,000 shares of stock that stock has split FOUR TIMES. That is incredible especially when their stock was selling for $32 a share, do the math and I don't feel sorry for them. On top of that they have an awesome profit sharing program worth millions for the Pilots which brakes down to the average pay of 375,000 for each pilot depending on their contribution. Yes they do get paid less but if the executives can maintain a level of superiority then these guys are going to be sitting fat. I hope Herb picks the right guys to lead them into the future.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
fly22 -

The problem is these perks only benefit the real senior people. All the new folks (new since '94) are looking at lower pay rates (as compared to other airlines) and not much in side benes, couple that with no traditional pension fund and quite a few folks are starting to realize they're mighty vunerable.

I fear the days of happy-go-lucky SWA may be drawing neigh ...
 

NWA_Flyer

New Member
Yea, that's true. Alot of the very first pilots at SWA have been made millionairs over the past 35 years or so. But still a new-hire pilot, doesn't get more than a new-hire DL pilot. But flying is flying, I do it for nothing.
 

fly22

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
fly22 -

The problem is these perks only benefit the real senior people. All the new folks (new since '94) are looking at lower pay rates (as compared to other airlines) and not much in side benes, couple that with no traditional pension fund and quite a few folks are starting to realize they're mighty vunerable.

I fear the days of happy-go-lucky SWA may be drawing neigh ...

[/ QUOTE ] You have a point here, the new guys got the shaft. The stock can only split so many times and be sold for so much. I wonder why they voted 2-1 to continue the contract. Are they top heavy? To many seniors
 

fly22

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Yea, that's true. Alot of the very first pilots at SWA have been made millionairs over the past 35 years or so. But still a new-hire pilot, doesn't get more than a new-hire DL pilot. But flying is flying, I do it for nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]Kid trust me when you have the hours and have spent the money to get there you won't say that you'll do it for free!
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
But flying is flying, I do it for nothing.


[/ QUOTE ]

Geez, if I only had a nickel for every time I've heard that....I could go back to flying for the fun of it.


Sorry...continue.....
 

NWA_Flyer

New Member
But of course, that's all it is these days. MONEY. Nobody cares what they did to make it to the flight deck, and they... are actually in the flightdeck, they only care about the money that it gives them.

The time when flying airliners was a dream/goal/reward rather than a job that gives you money is over. I am thankful I do not think like you. And hopefully everybody else will to when the time comes for me to step in the flight deck. I'll always enjoy flying, getting paid to do it, is just a little better, but again flying is flying, money doesn't make it any more enjoyable than it already is.

 

fly22

Well-Known Member
I think you are misunderstaning us. We love to fly but when you fly for a living you deal with a lot of #$%6 that isn't really associated with it. The flying isof course awesome but there is much more to do than just that when you fly for an airline.
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
I'll always enjoy flying, getting paid to do it, is just a little better, but again flying is flying, money doesn't make it any more enjoyable than it already is.


[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but you still need some sort of income to pay rent, and feed yourself - let alone a family.

And it's the "attitude" that "I'd fly for free" that helps bring down wages - especialy at the entrance level job.

There is absoloutely nothing wrong for expecting an honest wage for honest work.
 

fly22

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll always enjoy flying, getting paid to do it, is just a little better, but again flying is flying, money doesn't make it any more enjoyable than it already is.


[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but you still need some sort of income to pay rent, and feed yourself - let alone a family.

And it's the "attitude" that "I'd fly for free" that helps bring down wages - especialy at the entrance level job.

There is absoloutely nothing wrong for expecting an honest wage for honest work.

[/ QUOTE ] Amen to that!!!!
 

tonyw

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
And it's the "attitude" that "I'd fly for free" that helps bring down wages - especialy at the entrance level job.

There is absoloutely nothing wrong for expecting an honest wage for honest work.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the right attitude would be, yes, I love flying, but I want to get every single dime I can get for doing it.

If there's one thing that the latest downturn in the economy has taught us, it's that in any field, you are nothing but an expendable asset to any corporation and that management will cut your job in a heartbeat to preserve their bankruptcy proof pension. So you damn well better get every single penny you can get from management as long as they're paying you!
 

NWA_Flyer

New Member
Yea, your right. Pilots get paid, because it's a job of course, and yes again, it's not just flying, it's more than that, contracts, and that whole bit. But what I'm trying to say is, Pilots aren't exactly Store Managers, or something like that, and no affence to anyone who is. But pilots are pilots because they love to fly, now I would most certainly fly for Great Lakes Airlines for the rest of my life making under $20.00 and hour, flying a B1900 in most pretty nasty terrain. I'm not saying that I don't care how much I get, I do, that's life, money is life, but with flying it's not that important, than if I were to become a doctor or lawyer.

But anyway, I'm not going to argue with you, I can see from your views that alot or pilots, no pilots, and are alot older than me. I'm a 15 high school student, who still thinks pilots are larger than life super heros. But you see my point. I havn't past the age were dreams become reality. Hehe.

See ya,
 

NWA_Flyer

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
If there's one thing that the latest downturn in the economy has taught us, it's that in any field, you are nothing but an expendable asset to any corporation and that management will cut your job in a heartbeat to preserve their bankruptcy proof pension. So you damn well better get every single penny you can get from management as long as they're paying you!

[/ QUOTE ]


But see what I am trying to say is simple. I want to be a pilot because I love to fly, not because of how much money you bring in. Of course that's extremely important today, and will be for a long time, thats life. But do you become a doctor, and go through many, many years of school to bring a large paycheck home, or because you are dedicated to helping people? Thats like being a pilot in many ways.
 

tonyw

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
But see what I am trying to say is simple. I want to be a pilot because I love to fly, not because of how much money you bring in. Of course that's extremely important today, and will be for a long time, thats life. But do you become a doctor, and go through many, many years of school to bring a large paycheck home, or because you are dedicated to helping people? Thats like being a pilot in many ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny how you brought up doctors, because my sister is one. Her experience sounds a lot like what the older folks are telling you here. She got into medicine because she loved it, but now that she's depending on it to pay her bills, she wants to get every single dime she can for her work.

I'm glad you love flying. I do, too. But when it becomes my means of support, I intend to get every single dime I can get for doing it.

The two things aren't incompatible, you know.
 

NWA_Flyer

New Member
Yea so do I. Doing what you love and getting paid to do it. What more could you ask for.

But see, you might understand a little better if I told you I'm 15. And the thing that scares me the most is that I might not become a pilot someday, and I hate that thought. Getting into the flight deck is my main priority, nothing can beat that, not even the pay. After I get there is a whole different ball game. Who knows, that could be entirly different in 15 years or so.
 
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