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flying a STAR

Discussion in 'Technical Talk' started by STS-41B, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. STS-41B

    STS-41B Well-Known Member

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    Not so much a technical questions as much as a technique.. didn't know where else to post it.

    When you're flying a STAR.. do you put in the bottom altitude and follow the VNAV snowflake to ensure you hit the altitude windows? Or do you put in each lower altitude and do it "piece meal" as you go?

    I fly the CRJ.. whenever I jumpseat (which is usually on a 737 or A320), they put in the bottom altitude.
    Most captains I fly with on the CRJ, do it "step by step", setting the lower altitude of the next window and making sure the "banana" is just ahead of that fix.. which is how I usually do it.
    I recently flew with a captain who put in the bottom altitude.. he showed me the technique, etc.. and it seems a lot better. I did it on my legs and had no issues whatsoever.. I know I won't be able to always do it because many captains will freak out and I won't have time or energy to explain what I'm doing (lol)

    Just curious what others (esp CRJ drivers) do
     
  2. Dugie8

    Dugie8 Well-Known Member

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    Bottom altitude.

    I guess it all depends on how smart your FMS and VNAV are. As long as the altitude constraint is "in the box" VNAV should respect the altitude at each waypoint.

    Speed on the other hand....
     
  3. n156499000

    n156499000 Titanius Anglesmith

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    Considering the "advisory" nature of the VNAV in thru CRJ, I go fix by fix and spin the altitude down as I pass each one. Depending on the AT/ABOVE/BELOW nature I just manage the banana to be able to keep a constant descent as much as possible. As long as you don't bust any altitudes/speeds it shouldn't matter because it is, as you say, all a matter of technique.
     
  4. msmspilot

    msmspilot Well-Known Member

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    We put the next "hard" altitude. Usually that's the bottom, but some have an intermediate hard altitude, and I'll spin it once that one is pretty assured.
     
  5. Beefy McGee

    Beefy McGee Well-Known Member

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    My company flies the CRJ 200, 700, and 900, with a mix of NextGen and "legacy" models. Sometimes I set the bottom altitude and follow the snowflake via manual adjustments to the autopilot, sometimes I set the first hard altitude and VNAV it, and sometimes I dive and drive for each fix, depending on my mood. It breaks up the routine for me and also lets me practice the different methods. Just remember to adjust the VPA if there is a special one for the STAR besides the standard 3 degrees. And pay attention in case it's an imperfectly designed STAR, as sometimes you can follow a snowflake on the proper VPA and still miss an altitude or gate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2017
  6. bike21

    bike21 Somewhat Known Member

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    Without fancy VNAV in the CRJ I wouldn't always put the bottom altitude in. It depended on the day/winds/arrival so I don't think there is a 'wrong' technique as you have to more actively manage than sitting back watching the magic happen in a VNAV capable aircraft.
     
  7. Jordan93

    Jordan93 Well-Known Member

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    I put the first hard altitude in the ALT pre selector.
     
  8. KClark3

    KClark3 Well-Known Member

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    Not to change the subject but i've got a question to add on top of that. When flying a STAR and the controller says "resume normal speed", do you guys go with normal descent speed for your aircraft or the speed thats published on the STAR?
     
  9. CatchyScreenName

    CatchyScreenName Well-Known Member

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    What's your POH and/or OpSpec say to do ?
     
  10. CatchyScreenName

    CatchyScreenName Well-Known Member

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    STAR
     
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  11. adk

    adk Steals Hotel Toilet Paper

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    "Resume Normal Speed" compels you to comply with the restrictions of the star.

    "Delete Speed Restriction" means go whatever speed you'd like.
     
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  12. Dugie8

    Dugie8 Well-Known Member

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    I believe that would be an incorrect instruction from ATC.

    If you were given a speed assignment contrary to the STAR but then the controller wanted you back on the published speeds, the instruction should be

    "Comply with speed restrictions"

    AIM 4-4-12
    AIM 5-5-9


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  13. KClark3

    KClark3 Well-Known Member

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    THAT was the phraseology i was looking for thank you! I've been trying to figure that one out
     
  14. adk

    adk Steals Hotel Toilet Paper

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    Looked it up in the 7110.65 .... you are correct. "Resume Normal Speed" is not supposed to be used when there is an underlying speed restriction (i.e. on a STAR).
     
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  15. CoffeeIcePapers

    CoffeeIcePapers Well-Hung Member

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    Proline 21: Dial down the bottom altitude, assuming you're given descend via, hit vnav and watch it go.
    Older avionics, I manually dial in hard altitudes in the FMS and manually descend, since there's no VNAV capture.
     

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