Flying a light jet over water

z987k

Well-Known Member
Unless there is no other way...then you still shouldn't be going in a CJ3, or any airplane with a wet footprint.
IDK, I've kind of always wanted to ferry an airplane over something just STUPID like that. Met a guy ferrying a twotter on floats from OTH over to Hawaii. Even though it had floats, if it even lost 1 engine that airplane is still going to end up at the bottom of the ocean. Saw him a few weeks later with a wheeled 206 for the same flight.
 

TFaudree_ERAU

Mashin' dem buttons
IDK, I've kind of always wanted to ferry an airplane over something just STUPID like that. Met a guy ferrying a twotter on floats from OTH over to Hawaii. Even though it had floats, if it even lost 1 engine that airplane is still going to end up at the bottom of the ocean. Saw him a few weeks later with a wheeled 206 for the same flight.
There's a HUGE difference between ferrying with the blessing of the FAA and the OP loading up the boss and his kids in a CJ3 to go play in Hawaii for a week.
 

GX

Well-Known Member
This was, like I said, a scenario based question coming from ignorance. I was thinking someone may have said, "That's stupid, and if things go bad, you end up wet.", versus, "fly through Alaska and the Aleutians." Since I've never been faced with it, I figured I'd ask. Thanks for the insight.
 

dustoff17

Well-Known Member
This was, like I said, a scenario based question coming from ignorance. I was thinking someone may have said, "That's stupid, and if things go bad, you end up wet.", versus, "fly through Alaska and the Aleutians." Since I've never been faced with it, I figured I'd ask. Thanks for the insight.
GX,
Look at your weight and range along with ETOPS. If you want to make the trip, you should consider shipping the bulk of the luggage and plan using actual passenger weight. You would be surprised how that weight reduction will effect your capabilities.
 

MikeOH58

Well-Known Member
CJ anything is not a Hawaii airplane. As someone else mentioned, if your boss can afford a CJ3, even a used CJ3, then he can afford a nice falcon 50 and save a million or so.

If you have any CJ3 specific questions shoot me a PM
 

GX

Well-Known Member
GX,
Look at your weight and range along with ETOPS. If you want to make the trip, you should consider shipping the bulk of the luggage and plan using actual passenger weight. You would be surprised how that weight reduction will effect your capabilities.
That's one of the things I was really focused on. I also have a VERY limited understanding of ETOPS. Until dasleben made it clearer. I looked at the specs, and saw 1900 nm. Then went to the Cessna site, and looked at it with some bags and bodies, and it's a no go. It got all of the wheels and gears turning. There are so many variables that go into making these decisions, but I am not knowledgeable about what they are. I figured you guys would know.

CJ anything is not a Hawaii airplane. As someone else mentioned, if your boss can afford a CJ3, even a used CJ3, then he can afford a nice falcon 50 and save a million or so.

If you have any CJ3 specific questions shoot me a PM
Aren't there substantial operational cost increases with a F50 vs a CJ? Don't throw the "rich guy" card either; if he can afford to fly a CJ, he can afford to fly a 50...

Thanks for the offer.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
You might be able to do it from Dutch Harbor to Lihue. Just over 1900nm. The fuel bill for this would be amazingly not worth it, but.
 

GX

Well-Known Member
You might be able to do it from Dutch Harbor to Lihue. Just over 1900nm. The fuel bill for this would be amazingly not worth it, but.
ETOPS doesn't work there, either, does it?

I'm gathering that it's not the plane to get it done... ;)
 

SFLAX

Well-Known Member
First off, coming from over 1500 hours in the CJ3, it will not make it 1900 nm with any wiggle room, zero. And ETOPS has nothing to do with 91, but the biggest issue is the the Oxygen bottle, not fuel for many planes that want to go to Hawaii. A Sovereign, will make it on gas, but if you have to drift down to below 10k or people will start to die. So you have to bring extra O2 bottles and use them while you are up there, and when you get with in a drift down range with the fuel you have you can take them off. That is how we did it. Also, from the SFO to Kona it is 2100 nm. For the price of the flight, they can buy every first class ticket on United.
 

gne in prog

Well-Known Member
Etops doesn't apply to 91. All you need is o2 and dry footprints, well you don't need dry footprints legally, but you'd be crazy to not have them. The shortest distance to Hawaii is from cold bay, that makes for a long day.
 

GX

Well-Known Member
First off, coming from over 1500 hours in the CJ3, it will not make it 1900 nm with any wiggle room, zero. And ETOPS has nothing to do with 91, but the biggest issue is the the Oxygen bottle, not fuel for many planes that want to go to Hawaii. A Sovereign, will make it on gas, but if you have to drift down to below 10k or people will start to die. So you have to bring extra O2 bottles and use them while you are up there, and when you get with in a drift down range with the fuel you have you can take them off. That is how we did it. Also, from the SFO to Kona it is 2100 nm. For the price of the flight, they can buy every first class ticket on United.

Good post. Cessna (website) shows a range of 1900 (just a hair under). Good to know it's accurate. We covered ETOPS, and Part 91, but got into it as part of a planning element, and most of the guys concur with using ETOPS for planning purposes, if not used for the flight. Or at least being able to make an airport by the mid-point. I wasn't sure if ETOPS applied to Part 91, so we covered it for that reason. Like I said, an exercise out of ignorance.

How much time can you get out of a bottle?
 

GX

Well-Known Member
Etops doesn't apply to 91. All you need is o2 and dry footprints, well you don't need dry footprints legally, but you'd be crazy to not have them. The shortest distance to Hawaii is from cold bay, that makes for a long day.
That looks like a long day. What is your experience with that flight? How long, and what aircraft?
 

dasleben

That's just, like, your opinion, man
I want to be clear that ETOPS is a broad-based certification and associated set of operations specifications for Part 121/135. It includes not only the flight planning aspect, but equipment, firefighting, dispatch, maintenance, weather, and crew training requirements. Most of this isn't applicable to smaller bizjet flights operated under Part 91, but the planning part of it (checking fuel critical scenarios for single-engine and rapid decompression events) is a very good idea.
 
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