Fly into the ADIZ or crash?

tonyw

Well-Known Member
We got into a pretty decent debate at the FBO today over the crash that occurred a couple of weeks ago at Martin State near Baltimore. ATC apparently lost the pilot's ADIZ clearance, so they told him to stay out of it. He ran out of fuel and ended up in the trees.

Most people said if that happened to them, they would rather have to head on down to the FSDO to get chewed out AFTER their plane was on the ground intact. Some other people said that they'd never violate the ADIZ even if it meant they ran out of fuel because they might get in trouble.

What do you folks think?
 

fly22

Well-Known Member
When you are debating between a glich on your record or possibly your life that an easy decision to make.
 

EatSleepFly

Well-Known Member
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What do you folks think?


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I think people need to plan their flights better. Having to wait for an ADIZ clearance is a piss poor excuse for running out of fuel.

OK, flame away.
 

I_Money

Moderator
Juat remind me what an ADIZ is.......

I think the one thing we always should remember a controlled landing on a road or in a feild is always an option - you do not have to be on fire or without an engine to do that! Getting to airport is always better if you can though!
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
We're the pilot in command if fuel got to be a problem I'd land at the nearest airport - regardless of where it was - and then point right to FAR (CFR) 91.3(b).

Although I'd probalby have deviated and landed at an intermediate before fuel got to be that low.
 

tonyw

Well-Known Member
The ADIZ is the area around DC that the TSA, in all its wisdom, has decided is too dangerous to allow VFR flight in without prior clearance and a squawk. Of course, anyone can get that squawk. I could call up, say, hello, Leesburg, my name is Mohammad Atta, and I'd like a clearance to fly in the ADIZ. They would still issue me a squawk!

Okay, all kidding aside, the guy who crashed had called and the folks at the FSS said he was all set. So he took off from wherever he was coming from, and before he entered the ADIZ, got ATC and said, yeah, I'm ready to enter the ADIZ. He had about an hour and a half of fuel left at that point.

ATC told him to standby and remain clear, which he did. After over an hour of circling just outside of the ADIZ, he told them that he was running low on fuel. He didn't enter the ADIZ though, and ran out of fuel.

Me? The last call that he made would have been me declaring an emergency. Then I'd change my squawk to 7700 and head right to the airport. If I got called on it, I'd rely on 91.3(b).
 

zombie5225

New Member
It was 100% pilot error. He didn't notify ATC of his fuel situation until it was too late. If he would have declared an emergency or fuel critical earlier he would have been cleared in immediately. If I was in that position I would just say screw the ADIZ(Its nothing but a pain in the a$$ anyway
) One of my friends was in the pattern when it happened, he saw it go into the trees.

Picture
 

davetheflyer

New Member
It seems like a no brainer to me. I would pick option three: Land at another airport outside the ADIZ and refuel. There is absolutely no excuse for running out of fuel.

If he flew in circles until he was out of options, then that was just another part of the accident chain.
 

Brandon

New Member
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Some other people said that they'd never violate the ADIZ even if it meant they ran out of fuel because they might get in trouble.


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I hope I never have to fly with any of these people
 

eodfe

New Member
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Juat remind me what an ADIZ is.......

I think the one thing we always should remember a controlled landing on a road or in a feild is always an option - you do not have to be on fire or without an engine to do that! Getting to airport is always better if you can though!

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Air Defense Indentification Zone (ADIZ). There has been an ADIZ around the US for years and most country's have their form of an ADIZ around them. In order to cross an ADIZ you must have a flight plan filed, VFR or IFR, and be in contact with ATC. It was discribed in an article almost like a mode C veil. If you are not identified and you cross an ADIZ you will be intercepted.

On one occasion we were flying a mission over water and when we were returning we were unable to establish contact with ATC in order to pick up our IFR clearance back to base. So we squaked our last assigned code and flew the IFR flight plan, we crossed the ADIZ, by the time we finaly made contact with ATC they had already launched fighters to go take a look at us. Since we were military, since we need to get back to land, nothing was ever said about it.

I'm pretty sure if your are a GA aircraft and cross an ADIZ without proper clearance, you are going to be in trouble. But being in trouble or running yourself out of gas is a no brainer. But why didn't this aircraft, upon seeing their fuel state, find an airfield outside the ADIZ and land?

BTW, the AOPA web site had several good articles on the new ADIZ's that were established around New York and Washington DC.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
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What do you folks think?

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Squawk 7700, notify ATC of your intentions and go land the aircraft safely.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
I totally agree with Dave and ESF. It's always your fault when you run out of fuel, and you can easily avoid it.

Plan for an hour reserve and if it's tight, land and refuel.... no ADIZ busting maneuvers required.
 

Cav

Former Maddog Whisperer
You actually had a debate about this? Remind me not to fly with the folks who said they would rather run out of fuel.
 

CK

Well-Known Member
All that guy had to do was fly into another airport. It's his own fault for circling. He was probaly afriad what his friends would say.
 

aloft

New Member
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In order to cross an ADIZ you must have a flight plan filed, VFR or IFR, and be in contact with ATC.

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Make that a DVFR or IFR flight plan. A plain old VFR flight plan won't cut it.
 
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