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Flight Time vs Block Time vs Paid Time

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by ComplexHiAv8r, Jun 7, 2005.

  1. ComplexHiAv8r

    ComplexHiAv8r Well-Known Member

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    Watching closing arguments on the AmericanWest pilot trial, they mention different times in operations. How is paid time determined for pilots? Once pushback is completed (tug removed) starts the clock?

    Thanks
     
  2. Baronman

    Baronman Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure it depends on the airline but most start the clock with all the doors closed and the parking brake getting released.
     
  3. Cheechako

    Cheechako Well-Known Member

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    Flight Time: Actual flight time- when the wheels depart the runway until they contact the surface again. Used mostly to track maintenance cycles.

    Block Time: Door close to door open.

    Paid Time or Credit: The amount a flight crew gets paid for. Usually it's door close to door open. Many airlines pay the historical time or the actual block, which ever is greater. Example: historical time to fly LAX-COS is somewhere around 2:10, but many times we do it under 2:00. We still get paid the 2:10. If it takes us 2:15, then we get the 2:15. Many airlines have minimum daily pay. Today I do one leg, COS-LAX which will take around 2 hours, but our min. daily gaurantee is 3:45. So today I get paid 3:45 for a 2 hour flight.

    Clear as mud??
     
  4. ComplexHiAv8r

    ComplexHiAv8r Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Clear as mud??

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Clear as Mississippi Mud [​IMG]
    Thanks
     
  5. Ophir

    Ophir Well-Known Member

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    And just to add to what Chris said, at SKW, we get block time or better. This means that if that flight from COS-LAX is a 2:10 block but for what ever reason you go 3:10, you get paid for the 3:10. If you go less than 2:10 you get the 2:10.

    I think that is more generous than most airlines, but I am not sure.


    Hey, I thought the time started when we started the right engine and the parking brake was released. [​IMG]
     
  6. Kristie

    Kristie Mama Bear.... Staff Member

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    hehe... [​IMG] I remember when you were asking Doug that just a few years ago Chuck! [​IMG]
     
  7. Birdman

    Birdman New Member

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    In the airlines, do pilots get paid for preflying the airplane? Or is that all volunteer work? [​IMG]


    If pilots don't get paid for it, I can imagine some record short-time preflights.
     
  8. Ophir

    Ophir Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    hehe... [​IMG] I remember when you were asking Doug that just a few years ago Chuck! [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, it wasn't that long ago. Persistance is a good thing [​IMG]



    No, you don't really get paid to preflight the airplane. Your incentive is your certificate and your life (safety) oh yeah, and you have some pax to worry about too.
     
  9. shinysideup

    shinysideup New Member

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    [ QUOTE ]

    In the airlines, do pilots get paid for preflying the airplane? Or is that all volunteer work?


    If pilots don't get paid for it, I can imagine some record short-time preflights.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I am paid by duty hour. For example... 10am flight, I show at 9am and get off at 1800 when I walk out of the building, the clock stops. I get paid for 9 hours. Doesn't matter if I fly 8 hours or don't make it off the crew couch because of wx. I still get paid 9. The pre-flight is one reason, another is that we are not financially dependent on flying. Therefore, if I really need the money, I am not going to be pressed for personal reasons,to takeoff in an unsafe situation. Bad wx stay on the ground. MX problem that is 50/50 go no go, stay on the ground... That way passenger safety is not compromised by pilots paycheck.

    Yes it is at a lower rate then other regionals, but I have a min pay close to 40 hours a week compared to others 75 a month.
     
  10. ComplexHiAv8r

    ComplexHiAv8r Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Yes it is at a lower rate then other regionals, but I have a min pay close to 40 hours a week compared to others 75 a month.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If I can ask, what rate are you at? Is there a range for experience. I like the idea of this as it will prevent get-there-itis.
     
  11. APU

    APU New Member

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    To all,

    Well this all is very interesting. But it begs the
    question...How much does an airline pilot actually make?

    For example, on airlinepilotcentral.com it states the monthly minimum for each airline. This multiplied by the hourly wage will give you a monthly income, but is this accurate?

    Is the actual salary before taxes more like 120% of this number based on the information posted in previous threads?

    How often does one acutally fly only the minimum hours per month? What about per diem?

    What is a typical average hours flown per month vs on duty hours vs what you get paid for? Of course this will change from airline to airline and regional to major, but what should the budding pilot really expect on his W2 in January?

    Thanks in advance for any light on these questions.
     
  12. seagull

    seagull Well-Known Member

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    At FedEx we get paid the highest of the scheduled or actual block time, the scheduled trip time based on a formula dividing the total hours from 1 hr prior to the first flight to 30 mins after the last one, or a formula for duty time, with various additional pay increases for certain types of flights, duty time changes, etc, etc. The highest of all of that.

    Our average is higher than the guarantee, even on reserve.
     
  13. APU

    APU New Member

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    Seagull, thanks for the information.

    I'm curious how the ASA, Comair, Expressjet, Eagle, Mesa, etc. pilots compare with your experience. Of course Fed Ex's financial situation and business plan is vastly different from most of the Majors and Regionals. Anybody out there can answer for one of the RJ flying airlines?
     
  14. shinysideup

    shinysideup New Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Yes it is at a lower rate then other regionals, but I have a min pay close to 40 hours a week compared to others 75 a month.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If I can ask, what rate are you at? Is there a range for experience. I like the idea of this as it will prevent get-there-itis.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    First year works out to around $34,000 a year.
     
  15. Birdman

    Birdman New Member

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    Hey Ophir! Thanks for the reply =)

    Shinysideup, I think that's a neat method of how you're paid per hour. I think it would make the flight a lot safer,

    Does Fed Ex pay pilots extra for trip conditions, like for over water flying, international flying, etc..? I'm curious =)

    Thx!
     
  16. JAM

    JAM New Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Seagull, thanks for the information.

    I'm curious how the ASA, Comair, Expressjet, Eagle, Mesa, etc. pilots compare with your experience. Of course Fed Ex's financial situation and business plan is vastly different from most of the Majors and Regionals. Anybody out there can answer for one of the RJ flying airlines?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    At Comair, we have the same setup. They are called 'rigs', where you are paid the greater of a variety of time calculating methods. For example, we get the greater of:
    1) Min guarantee
    2) Actual block time(per leg)
    3) Scheduled block time (per leg)
    4) 1/2 duty time
    5) 1/3.75 trip time (similar to FedEx)
    6) An avg of 4:20 for each duty day

    Many airlines have similar rigs, although some don't have these 'protections.'
     
  17. av8trxx

    av8trxx Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    In the airlines, do pilots get paid for [preflighting] the airplane? Or is that all volunteer work?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Once I sign sign in for a trip (45 min prior) I begin to accumulate time away from base pay (per diem). Preflights would be done for that $1.50/hr or whatever the perdiem rate is until the door is closed and the hourly flight pay rate starts.
     
  18. Mahesh

    Mahesh New Member

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    Who logs the door closed time, gear up time etc. Is it an honor based system where the Captain turns in the informaton after the completion of the trip?

    Just curions.

    Thanks,
    Mahesh
     
  19. kellwolf

    kellwolf Piece of Trash

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    ACARS pwns you. [​IMG]
     
  20. ComplexHiAv8r

    ComplexHiAv8r Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    ACARS pwns you.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Can you please give that in English....I have enough acronyms in my head because of IFR training...I can't remember this one. [​IMG]
     

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