Flight Following

ROSWELL41

New Member
I have a question about flight following that people keep giving me different answers on. When you are on flight following does that always clear you through airspace along your route (i.e. Class B). If you inform them that your destination is within the Class B do you still need to verify that you have a clearance?
 

ready2fly

Well-Known Member
My experience has been that ATC will tell you in advance that you are cleared into Class Bravo as you approach that airspace.

I don't *think* that it "automatically" clears you into Class B.

I could be wrong.
 

Dan

New Member
When I fly here in Memphis.. I always ask for "VFR Traffic adviseries" and they issue me a sqawk code . My instructor also said that to make sure you hear "Cleared Class Bravo" , that was the clearence. But I'm sure you could just ask ATC for a verification of clearance if you're not sure.

Hope this helps some...

Dan
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
It absouletely does not clear you through the B, but normally they'll give you your clearance way before you have to ask for it.

A friend of mine cancelled IFR near the B and kept flight following VFR, but flew into the B due to a brain fart (IFR airspace pretty much dosen't exits: it's either controlled or not, therefore you need no clearance for B). Anyways he got bi$ched at pretty hard in the air, but apoligized and that was the end of it. Lucky him!
 

I_Money

Moderator
When flying VFR with flight following regardless of if you are flying through or into Class B you have to get a clearance which should normally be followed by instructions. You are not automatically cleared through or in, although I have yet to have problems getting a clearance.
 

I_Money

Moderator
[ QUOTE ]
A friend of mine cancelled IFR near the B and kept flight following VFR, but flew into the B due to a brain fart (IFR airspace pretty much dosen't exits: it's either controlled or not, therefore you need no clearance for B). Anyways he got bi$ched at pretty hard in the air, but apoligized and that was the end of it. Lucky him!

[/ QUOTE ]

Banging into LAX once they gave me instructions into class Bravo yet never cleared me. I proceed with the instructions, and said on the end of my transmission 'I presume that counts as a clearance' which was followed by cleared into Class B.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
It absouletely does not clear you through the B, but normally they'll give you your clearance way before you have to ask for it.



[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. In fact, be very cautious of using VFR flight following. You're bottom priority so far as ARTCC is concerned. You may be approaching Class B airspace and they won't tell you since they're busy working all the traffic that is more priority to you. Besides, it's the pilot's responsibility to always know where his aircraft is going; during VFR flight following, ATC has no responsibility over that since you're VFR (nor do they want the extra workload). If you're approaching Class B airspace, NO clearance is automatic; unless you hear "Cleared into Class B" from the servicing TRACON, you need to stay clear.

Hence, why VFR flight following is a false sense of security unless one knows exactly what that service provides and doesn't provide.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
The only *possible* exception would be some kind of VFR coridor through the B, which would be described on the terminal chart. It's still 'bravo', but for practical purposes it's like a little bit of echo through. That is, if there is a VFR coridor AND you don't need a clearance for it.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
The only *possible* exception would be some kind of VFR coridor through the B, which would be described on the terminal chart. It's still 'bravo', but for practical purposes it's like a little bit of echo through. That is, if there is a VFR coridor AND you don't need a clearance for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

For a VFR transition, you'll be cleared to fly via the particular transition, vice normally getting a specific Class B clearance. PHX TRACON always does that to me when I press through their Class B on the VFR transition.
 

SierraPilot

New Member
FAR 91.131 (1) The operator must receive an ATC clearance from the ATC facility having jurisdiction for that area before operating an aircraft in that area.

Flight following is not a clearance to enter the class Bravo airspace. You would still need to get a clearance to enter the class Bravo from ATC.

Ryan
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
There's also an LAX coridor which requires NO communication whatsoever. Squawk the code, fly the path, and you're set as far as ATC is concenred.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
There's also an LAX coridor which requires NO communication whatsoever. Squawk the code, fly the path, and you're set as far as ATC is concenred.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember that now vaguely. Makes sense. With the amount of GA VFR in that area, TRACON would get swamped pretty quickly, IMO.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I have a question about flight following that people keep giving me different answers on. When you are on flight following does that always clear you through airspace along your route (i.e. Class B). If you inform them that your destination is within the Class B do you still need to verify that you have a clearance?

[/ QUOTE ]For Class B, you must hear the words "cleared into Class Bravo." (with regulatory exceptions like SFAR 51-1 for LAX). Two weeks ago I flew into Denver International for a get-together. You'd assume that when you were taking off from the Class B, the clearance would be understood. Nevertheless, when Clearance Delivery gave me my VFR departure instructions "Cleared in to Class Bravo" was part of it.

On the other hand, if you are getting flight following from the Approach facility controlling Class C, you =do not= have to hear the words.

The difference is because 91.131 specifically requires a "clearance" into Class B airspace, while 91.130 only requires establishing two-way communication for Class C.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
You'd assume that when you were taking off from the Class B, the clearance would be understood. Nevertheless, when Clearance Delivery gave me my VFR departure instructions "Cleared in to Class Bravo" was part of it.

The difference is because 91.131 specifically requires a "clearance" into Class B airspace, while 91.130 only requires establishing two-way communication for Class C.

[/ QUOTE ]

On your example, I wouldn't be surprised they do it that way since you're departing tower's area of responsibility and going to TRACONs. Nitpicky, if you ask me, or even if true.


Remember what's needed, if anything, to go into a TRSA?
 

I_Money

Moderator
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Love the LAX shoreline route. All the traffic departing under you. Good view though.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to go in there - they view is 10 times better!!
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
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Remember what's needed, if anything, to go into a TRSA?

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Nothing. Participation in the TRSA is encouraged but you can toole around all day inside the boundaries and no one cares. Now, to enter the "main" airport you'd need to establish two-way communications ... but the TSRA is a voluntary thing.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Remember what's needed, if anything, to go into a TRSA?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing. Participation in the TRSA is encouraged but you can toole around all day inside the boundaries and no one cares. Now, to enter the "main" airport you'd need to establish two-way communications ... but the TSRA is a voluntary thing.

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Correct. In fact, TRSAs are one of the only airspace-name holdovers from the old designation system (TCA/ARSA//PCA/ATA) prior to the current one.

Know how old I am? When I first started flying, PHX was a TRSA!
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]

Remember what's needed, if anything, to go into a TRSA?

[/ QUOTE ]It's my favorite. If you go by the FAR, there's simply no such thing — I don't think there's even a reference to the creature. So you don't need anything that you don't need in Class E (until, of course, you get to the Class D in the middle).

And if you follow the AIM, you come to the conclusion that you should to talk to them in order to tell them you're not going to talk to them.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
Aren't there only 3 or so TRSAs in the US? I've been in the black lines before, they were really unhelpful! I asked for FF, they came back with a standby. Two more calls from me, standbys from them later and I was already out of the airspace. They could have at least told me 'unable'...

Anyways isn't it established when a class D tower has an approach control charlie style, but the airport doesn't count as a charlie airport? Or something like that...
 
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