Finish up my Instrument, Sheble?

ozziecat35

4 out of 5 great lakes prefer Michigan.
Well, fuel only keeps going up ($5.92 here at KDPA in Chicago). I can only imagine they've kept it.

Was the surcharge per hour?
 

jskibo

Done
Well, fuel only keeps going up ($5.92 here at KDPA in Chicago). I can only imagine they've kept it.

Was the surcharge per hour?
Took my first ever flight lesson at DPA way back in 1985 :) (No the wings weren't fabric covered)

Yes, When I first moved here I saw the DA40's and thought, hmm, lets add a new one to the log book. Rate was $117 on the web then, so I thought good deal! Called and was told $35 on top of that per hour for fuel surcharge. WTF? thought the DA sipped fuel. OK how about the C172? Same thing!

Now maybe they changed as going rate around here seems to be $125 and below. Hell you can go to Charlotte, MI and get a 530 equiped C172 for $125, less in 50 hour blocks.
 

Rotor2Wing

Unapologetically American
I have seen people going away to school for a week with $X,000 in there hand and expect to have a rating in 5 days, come home disappointed. I have done it twice with success but it was not easy. I would figure extra days and a few extra thousand into the equation to make it easier.

One of the common factors I have found at the schools I could afford is the planes are tired and the staff is overworked. That's how they can afford to get you your CFI for $1600.

Find out as much as you can about the aircraft, procedures, and syllabus of whoever you go with and study and train ahead of time, so you show up ready to get it done. But give yourself a time and money cushion, cramming a rating into a weeks time is hard enough without any extra pressures.

Good Luck with this

Good point. Going down to Crystal River may actually be a good option. On days I can't fly for whatever reason, I can go in the office and not burn vacation. Should I run long down there and require a few more days, I can always work remotely from the hotel, or go fly after a day in the office.
Well I know that Tom doesn't want to book any training if they are tight on aircraft so thats good. I also had a fellow JCer tell me that when he was down there for training on a tight schedule he felt they made it a priority to get him done on time. They also have housing right by the business for very economical rates.
 

FlyingScot

Spanish Proficient
Rotor2Wing said:
Well I know that Tom doesn't want to book any training if they are tight on aircraft so thats good. I also had a fellow JCer tell me that when he was down there for training on a tight schedule he felt they made it a priority to get him done on time. They also have housing right by the business for very economical rates.
For the record I was not implying anything about Tom's program. I have seen unreasonable dollar and time figures advertised. Something to consider when comparing programs and their promises. The fact that Tom talked to the OP and came up with reasonable expectations and suggested extra preparation before arriving, shows his integrity and that he has his best interest at heart.
 

Rotor2Wing

Unapologetically American
For the record I was not implying anything about Tom's program. I have seen unreasonable dollar and time figures advertised. Something to consider when comparing programs and their promises. The fact that Tom talked to the OP and came up with reasonable expectations and suggested extra preparation before arriving, shows his integrity and that he has his best interest at heart.
I agree 100%! I didn't intend for my post to seem that you were implying that but what you were saying is true a lot of the time in those types of schools that advertise cheap training. I just wanted to point out the same thing you just said. No worries either way.
 

A150K

Well-Known Member
Took my first ever flight lesson at DPA way back in 1985 :) (No the wings weren't fabric covered)

Yes, When I first moved here I saw the DA40's and thought, hmm, lets add a new one to the log book. Rate was $117 on the web then, so I thought good deal! Called and was told $35 on top of that per hour for fuel surcharge. WTF? thought the DA sipped fuel. OK how about the C172? Same thing!

Now maybe they changed as going rate around here seems to be $125 and below. Hell you can go to Charlotte, MI and get a 530 equiped C172 for $125, less in 50 hour blocks.
Maybe I'm thinking too logically right now, but why not just charge $152/hr? That's a pretty standard rate for a DA40 depending on avionics..
 

amjon

Pilot and A Half (for now
Call FTE http://www.flyfte.com I did my private there and plan to do instrument on some point. I will fly down and spend a couple of weeks if I have to if I don't get to it before I have to go to KC, Missouri with DH. They are a great bunch of guys. The CP is a great guy that really cares about people. He treats the CFIs and the students great. (We stopped by today and he was taking one of the students out to lunch for his birthday.) The planes are all well maintained (A&P is also a pilot that flies the planes) and the rates are lower than any I have found in Central Florida. If you can't get them by email, just send me a PM and I'll get you the number to call.
 

jskibo

Done
Ok, I have a new line on a local operation. Muskegon flying club has an active instructor that does accelerated programs.

Club costs for one month, including the buy in is $300.

Rates are good, 172 for $85 wet.

He's available evening and willing to do four hours a night for the 7-10 days I need. Works better for my schedule, preserves vacation and travel costs.

Now here's the question, the 172 is going in soon for a new engine and will come out at a slightly higher rate. If it conflicts as being down when I want to do this, I can either wait, or use the 177 or Mooney 20F at $95 an hour (either one).

Any thoughts as to using the Mooney as my IFR platform and wrapping a high perf sign off into the training?

Any thoughts as to why I wouldn't want a check ride in the Mooney for IFR?

He will flat rate the instruction at $1600 whatever it takes time wise for me to finish and pass.

Both aircraft seem to be a basic IFR panel with yoke mounted Garmin 496
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
A high performance sign off isn't a big thing. The commercial SE requires 10 hours complex and the Mooney would count for that. Still not sure if an old Mooney would be good for basic IFR. The one I flew had sort of a hodge podge panel with stuff all over the place. I'd ask the instructor if he has done any IFR ratings in it and how they went. A 177 is basically a 172 with a 180hp engine. They have a very nice standard panel setup for IFR, as would the 172. The 496? Well, I wouldn't even let you use it as it's not approved for IFR. You wouldn't even want it in the airplane on a checkride so I wouldn't want you getting used to it. Once you have the rating they are great for situational awareness.

If you are going to move on to your commercial, the Mooney time could save you some money in the long run. Just not sure the older ones make a good basic IFR trainer. It would probably take you a bit longer because the plane is more complex. More things to think about and possibly the panel layout would be a hindrance. Curious what the instructor thinks.
 

jskibo

Done
I just had a chance to ask him:

He said he would do it, but would prefer the Cardinal. Said the Mooney is a great long trip machine, but he said the workload and decent planning in the Mooney would distract from the learning and extend the curve more than needed.

New fixed rate of $1200 for the instructor, and he'll give me a deal on 7 or 8 hours in the mooney and a sign off once we are done on Instrument.

Seems like a good deal. Will be mostly evenings at the end of September. Works well for my time as I don't burn 5 days vacation.

Somewhere just under $4k for 23 hours in the Cardinal, all his time, club fee one month and the examiner fee ($450).

I'll have two checkrides in a week then as my Seaplane one is Oct 7th.

Time to Call Tom and get on the schedule for his Multi!!!
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I'm a big believer in ground trainer's (simulators) for basic IFR procedures. Approved units can count for up to 20 hours towards a part 61 IFR rating. They can save money and teach certain things much more efficiently than the airplane.
 
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