FAR 117 and Diversions

Aeroscout840

Well-Known Member
Hello all, I'm visiting from the dispatch thread to ask your pilot opinion on a important topic --

How does a diversion get tracked for:

1. Pay purposes.
2. FAR 117 purposes.

I'd like a little feed back on how each company tracks their time for each catagory.

For example, if you divert and go to a hard stand (with no door opening) how do you register an in time? etc.

Thanks, ladies and Gents

Rich
 

PhilosopherPilot

Well-Known Member
Hello all, I'm visiting from the dispatch thread to ask your pilot opinion on a important topic --

How does a diversion get tracked for:

1. Pay purposes.
2. FAR 117 purposes.

I'd like a little feed back on how each company tracks their time for each catagory.

For example, if you divert and go to a hard stand (with no door opening) how do you register an in time? etc.

Thanks, ladies and Gents

Rich
Many airlines require the main cabin door to be open for fueling, so if you divert you'll most likely need to open the door to get fuel.

Otherwise, I'm not sure.
 

Autothrust Blue

"Blakeley's face was grave."
(1) is independent of Part 117 and covered by our work rules. (Should be covered by your work rules too.) Our AFIS blocks us in when the parking brake is set and the main cabin door is opened, doesn't matter where. If we don't open the door, we're still considered to be operating the aircraft.

We must also fuel with the MCD open, so if we're getting gas, we're going to be blocked in.

(2) How do you mean? Your (flight) duty limit is still a function of the number of scheduled legs and your (domicile) report time and your block limit is a function of when you reported too.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
Previous gig you blocked in only when you were at a gate and opened the door and the flight required a new dispatch release. So, for example if you diverted and pulled up to a hardstand and popped the door (air stairs) while waiting for fuel and a new release, you were blocked in. If you taxied out, realized you needed more gas, taxied back to a hardstand, popped the door, refueled, then shut the door and taxied back out, you were never blocked in.

Current gig as soon as the door opens we are blocked in.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
We can fuel with the door closed, so you could stay blocked in.
But then you can't walk down the belt-loader and have @amorris311 take your picture in the driver's seat of that same belt-loader.


* * *


Hello all, I'm visiting from the dispatch thread to ask your pilot opinion on a important topic --

How does a diversion get tracked for:

1. Pay purposes.

Where I work we are on the clock until one of the left side doors is opened.

If that takes a while because we are waiting for stairs or a parking spot, no matter.

An out time is recorded when both left side doors have been closed and the parking brake is released.
 

Aeroscout840

Well-Known Member
1. If you park remote for 45 minutes and depart without opening a door, does that count towards your block time? I guess that is my question.

2. Should the company advocate a policy that requires you to block in to extend your "usable" duty day?

3. Does FAR 117 count time parked remote on a diversion as part of your block duty day?
 
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elmetal

Ain't nobody got time for that
1. If you park remote for 45 minutes and depart without opening a door, does that count towards your block time? I guess that is my question.

2. Should the company advocate a policy that requires you to block in to extend your "usable" duty day?

3. Does FAR 117 count time parked remote on a diversion as part of your block duty day?
If the door is closed and the airplane hasn't blocked in, or has blocked out, your block time is ticking. If you're still in flight duty your duty time is ticking whether or not you are blocked in or out. If you landed and popped the door, it doesnt help with your FDP limits because until you get released to rest (or DH)your FDP is counting.
 

Autothrust Blue

"Blakeley's face was grave."
1. If you park remote for 45 minutes and depart without opening a door, does that count towards your block time? I guess that is my question.

2. Should the company advocate a policy that requires you to block in to extend your "usable" duty day?

3. Does FAR 117 count time parked remote on a diversion as part of your block duty day?
I think you need to read Part 117.

(1) Yes.

(2) Since FDP only terminates when the aircraft comes to rest and there is no further intention of aircraft movement by that crewmember, I'm not sure it matters. The FDP clock will run until we're done moving the airplane and will have the consequent effect on cumulative FDP limits. If it's a block limit you're worried about, that might be another story.

(3) Block is block, and flight duty is flight duty. They are not interchangeable terms.
 

adk

Steals Hotel Toilet Paper
1. If you park remote for 45 minutes and depart without opening a door, does that count towards your block time? I guess that is my question.

2. Should the company advocate a policy that requires you to block in to extend your "usable" duty day?

3. Does FAR 117 count time parked remote on a diversion as part of your block duty day?
1. Time sitting on the ground counts as block time. So does taxiing out and then gate returning to add fuel.

2. A company can implement whatver policy it wants, but getting a crew to actually pop the door (and stop getting paid) is another story.

3. Yes.
 
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