FAA maybe not so stupid?

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!

First I was like, "oh no you didnt!" but then I read the article. A push for all airline pilots across the globe to get back into flying the airplane, while still looking to change the MCAS logic and possibly remove the single point failure they believed-in the past-wasn't a single point failure. Not bad for a toothless, feckless group of clock punchers.

Thankfully I'm so damn good this isn't directed at me. So I'll be kicking that auto pilot on early and stay on late.

*kicks back in chair and snoozes*
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
A bunch of accidents caused by pilots not understanding their automation? Yeah, more hand flying is really what's needed. :sarcasm:
Eh, idk, maybe I should read the newest and best latest and greatest on these accidents. Seems like you're pulling back and the trim wheel is going forward and the majority of pilots were able to shut it off and they didn't know anything about the automation except it was f'ing a dog.

Anyway, if it's more complex than that and you have a link to an article that dives deep I'll read it. Seemed like someone somewhere posted up a long one describing both that I read.
 

bLizZuE

Fly airplanes, drink beer, never at the same time.
156 word “article?”

Where is the FAA request itself?
 

Autothrust Blue

"I’d make a suggestion but you won’t listen”
Well, sure. But it seems to me that one problem is much bigger than the other. But because you like to wack it to thoughts of hand flying, you focus on the wrong one.
I am certain from your desk at zero feet and zero knots you are in a much better position to adequately assess the human factors challenges that this industry has than I am from FL330 and 500 knots—you're right.

:sarcasm:
 

Autothrust Blue

"I’d make a suggestion but you won’t listen”
Good... Very Good... Excellent Post.
More than what Pierre and Hans (and some bloke who builds the wings and engines) I can cite research too, so.

It pisses me off to no end to hear there's no hand-flying problem in this business. There is very much a hand-flying problem in this business. There is also a problem with ensuring that pilots are adequately equipped with an understanding of their airplanes, and that includes their autoflight system.

A mode reversion should cause you to sit up and pay attention, but the state transition itself should never be a surprise.

tick tick tick
 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
More than what Pierre and Hans (and some bloke who builds the wings and engines) I can cite research too, so.

It pisses me off to no end to hear there's no hand-flying problem in this business. There is very much a hand-flying problem in this business. There is also a problem with ensuring that pilots are adequately equipped with an understanding of their airplanes, and that includes their autoflight system.

A mode reversion should cause you to sit up and pay attention, but the state transition itself should never be a surprise.

tick tick tick
Hell, bro. For me, the state of transition from one A/P mode to the next is damned near always in question. That's why I so often revert to A/P-F/D OFF, FLY AIRPLANE mode; That mode has never failed me.
 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
People crashed airplanes for all sorts of stupid reasons before highly automated airplanes.

Smells like another baby boomer “generational” slight.
The following are generalizations:*

Pilots have - and will continue to - crash airplanes when events or situations distract them from, or impede their ability to fly the airplane.
...

Historically...
Good pilots crash airplanes when planes break.
Bad pilots cause planes to break and then crash them.

Currently...
Old-time pilots crash airplanes because they break the automation, and then they don't realize what's happening.
Magenta pilots crash airplanes because the automation breaks, and then they don't know how to fly the airplane.


*...so, prophylactically, calm the F down.
 
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Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
"Remember Bucharest!"
"Instead of saving them, the autopilot kills them!"

I'm likely one of the staunchest advocates for training on this board. All for training. Initial. Recurrent. Supplemental. It's all good.
But if kicking off the A/P and holding the controls during an exigent circumstance is the kind of stuff that needs to be re-trained to experienced AA pilots, I'm done with this industry.
 
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