F-18 AND C-130 down off Japan

Flyinthrew

Well-Known Member
#21
Still waiting in my turn, but the systems provided by the digital FCS and coupled control modes make it far far safer than what dudes were doing just a decade ago.

The areas where “stuff happens” are still there, but the transitions between them get far simpler and provide more control to the steps of the process.
I've had to make it happen up high in rough air where the baskets were just absolute wrecking balls. I think you're bonkers for doing it down low where the air is just sloppy on a standard day. I've heard they use a different drogue. Perhaps one that is more stable at that slow of a speed?
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
#22
I've had to make it happen up high in rough air where the baskets were just absolute wrecking balls. I think you're bonkers for doing it down low where the air is just sloppy on a standard day. I've heard they use a different drogue. Perhaps one that is more stable at that slow of a speed?
There's high speed and low speed drogues. Same with booms, but low speed booms aren't used anymore and haven't been for a long time.

Ever get the fun of the KC-135s Iron Maiden basket?
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
#23
I've had to make it happen up high in rough air where the baskets were just absolute wrecking balls. I think you're bonkers for doing it down low where the air is just sloppy on a standard day. I've heard they use a different drogue. Perhaps one that is more stable at that slow of a speed?
I mean the thing moves, but the guy on the controls isn’t looking at the basket, they’re looking at the wing and flaps to get the right sight picture.

It’s more with the G you can literally sit still in space so only 1 of 2 moving objects is up for debate. Then you can with the simple push of a button tell the aircraft “3 feet forward, 2 feet up” and it’ll do it without any input.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
#24
I mean the thing moves, but the guy on the controls isn’t looking at the basket, they’re looking at the wing and flaps to get the right sight picture.

It’s more with the G you can literally sit still in space so only 1 of 2 moving objects is up for debate. Then you can with the simple push of a button tell the aircraft “3 feet forward, 2 feet up” and it’ll do it without any input.
Exhaust area and flaps for contact, wingtip level when moved to the fueling position. And you always sneak looks at the basket.....it's impossible not to. Just don't stare at it :D

Then, when you get the tanker doing gyrations all over the place, all that cool FCS stuff goes out the window?
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
#25
Exhaust area and flaps for contact, wingtip level when moved to the fueling position. And you always sneak looks at the basket.....it's impossible not to. Just don't stare at it :D

Then, when you get the tanker doing gyrations all over the place, all that cool FCS stuff goes out the window?
Just remember I’m the only person crazy enough to be having the probe inside my rotor disk instead of forward of it.... good times.
 

Flyinthrew

Well-Known Member
#27
There's high speed and low speed drogues. Same with booms, but low speed booms aren't used anymore and haven't been for a long time.

Ever get the fun of the KC-135s Iron Maiden basket?
The Maiden isn't authorized for us. Our probe is on the left side and roughly abeam the pilot's head. The Maiden's basket is way harder than any other "soft basket". Any sort of slap with that thing and we go convertible. I have a friend who tried it over Iraq in the OIF period and it didn't work.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
#28
Well i mean that’s only fair. Someone has to stay behind to make sure the gear is down.
Last guy out gets assigned paperwork for all the misplaced equipment... Officer at the PM made sure there was no way in hell it would be him.

In honesty I loved the Viking. That thing was truly impressive and we never replaced its capabilities completely.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
#29
The Maiden isn't authorized for us. Our probe is on the left side and roughly abeam the pilot's head. The Maiden's basket is way harder than any other "soft basket". Any sort of slap with that thing and we go convertible. I have a friend who tried it over Iraq in the OIF period and it didn't work.
That makes sense. I've heard it's a pain. Are your Hornets authorized for it?

Then at the other end of the spectrum, is the KC-10. Nice Gucci platform to refuel from, but have only done boom on that one. I hear the drogue side is nice too.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
#30
Just remember I’m the only person crazy enough to be having the probe inside my rotor disk instead of forward of it.... good times.
Ours was barely past the disk. Either way, never be low. Miss high and to the outside. And disconnect somewhat level to high(er) too.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
#31
Ours was barely past the disk. Either way, never be low. Miss high and to the outside. And disconnect somewhat level to high(er) too.
If we miss low it’s not the drogue you have to worry about anymore... it’s the horizontal Stab on the 130.
 

Flyinthrew

Well-Known Member
#32
That makes sense. I've heard it's a pain. Are your Hornets authorized for it?

Then at the other end of the spectrum, is the KC-10. Nice Gucci platform to refuel from, but have only done boom on that one. I hear the drogue side is nice too.
Hornets are the primary users from the US. Lots of coalition users too since most of them are drogue/probe types.

KC-10 centerline is my US platform of choice. Great reference points when on goggles and it's on centerline so no Miley Cyrus wrecking balls in turbulence. Reliability is the only negative.

That said, I received this donation from a KC-10 wingtip pod at about 4 am somewhere around Maryland in some super poopy conditions.
IMG_1375.jpg
 
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MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
#33
If we miss low it’s not the drogue you have to worry about anymore... it’s the horizontal Stab on the 130.
The drogue will be gone.....and then the further fun will start for you guys and everyone else. Always hated how close even my own rotor disk was to the -130, I can't imagine the fun of yours or a -53s.

Hornets are the primary users from the US. Lots of coalition users too since most of them are drogue/probe types.

KC-10 centerline is my US platform of choice. Great reference points when on goggles and it's on centerline so no Miley Cyrus wrecking balls in turbulence. Reliability is the only negative.

That said, I received this donation from a KC-10 wingtip pod at about 4 am somewhere around Maryland in some super poopy conditions.
View attachment 46124
Got a trophy! :) Yeah, love the KC-10. Great director light system underneath (far better than the -135s) for boom A/R. But unfortunately, the AF wants to retire them. And keep all the old-ass -135s.
 

RDoug

Well-Known Member
#35
Happens, unfortunately. Air-air refueling occurrences happen more than people know and many go unreported in any news outlets, both in boom A/R as well as probe & drogue A/R. Boom collisions, damaged booms and aircraft, torn off drogues, etc. All kinds of nastiness can occur, and that's just in daytime clear weather A/R. Add in night, and/or foul weather, and the risks just get higher. Having done both boom as well as probe/drogue A/R, I've seen the risks that each type has inherent to its operation.
I still recall watching this one in the news for months:

1966 Palomares B-52 crash
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
#36
Now reporting both of the Hornet crew members have been recovered.

Unfortunately those two were the most likely to have survived the ordeal.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
#39
Silver linings...

Is VMGR-352 still out of Futema?
Report has both units out of Iwakuni.

That would track with the D model detachment for the Hornets. I don’t know what the current positioning in Tankers is since they seem to go to where customers need them so often.


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