Ethiopian 737 Max Crash this morning

gliderboy

Well-Known Member
There's a pretty obnoxious warning bell if the throttle gets above a certain point with the flaps up, isn't there?
Yes, but there's an alternative scenario being mooted about the FO possibly raising the flaps instead of the gear, a config that would explain the high speed, lack of climb and a regime (AP off/high AOA) where the MCAS might intervene.

Remember Gann pulling up the gear too early when the DC-3 was still rolling and he was a new FO?
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
Yes, but there's an alternative scenario being mooted about the FO possibly raising the flaps instead of the gear, a config that would explain the high speed, lack of climb and a regime (AP off/high AOA) where the MCAS might intervene.

Remember Gann pulling up the gear too early when the DC-3 was still rolling and he was a new FO?
That seems completely improbable in a Boeing. The actions are not even remotely the same.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
Was that 200 total or 200 in type. I mean given the media’s track record on aviation I’m somewhat unenergized in just taking their reporting for facts without question. I’d think that would be a critical clarification that they would otherwise ignore.



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Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
Was that 200 total or 200 in type. I mean given the media’s track record on aviation I’m somewhat unenergized in just taking their reporting for facts without question. I’d think that would be a critical clarification that they would otherwise ignore.



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Today, we jumped the shark hard.

I was commuting home and the copilot asked if I haard anything new about the accident.

Then he says “I was in the crew van with a flight attendant and her friend who is supposedly datalink someone in the NTSB says...”
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
Today, we jumped the shark hard.

I was commuting home and the copilot asked if I haard anything new about the accident.

Then he says “I was in the crew van with a flight attendant and her friend who is supposedly datalink someone in the NTSB says...”
Whatever happened you’ll hear it first on reddit... maybe 4chan.


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MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
Was that 200 total or 200 in type. I mean given the media’s track record on aviation I’m somewhat unenergized in just taking their reporting for facts without question. I’d think that would be a critical clarification that they would
Whichever one it is, you either have ar best, extremely low experience in type; or at worst, extremely low experience in the whole of aviation.
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
Whichever one it is, you either have ar best, extremely low experience in type; or at worst, extremely low experience in the whole of aviation.
Yeah but 200 total with 10 in type is a hell of a lot different than a whole lot of total with 200 in type. At least 200 hours in type would have some idea where to go and what buttons to push to get to pages in a CDU at the direction of a multi thousand hour captain.

200 total with a fraction in type, dude will barely know where the fire handles are.


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DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
How could he have 200 in type and 200 in the jet. Doesn't make any sense. When a guy has 200tt, that's in airplanes (and maybe the sim). Where do they send their cadets? Dude had to have had 100 hours in little planes before they let him touch a jet with people in it, don't you think? In any case, 200 total sitting in the right seat of flippin' 737 is just stupid in my mind. The Capt was on his own on this one. How much could a 200 hour guy offer other than to read the checklist and know what buttons to push. I can't believe we are even talking about this....
 

BEEF SUPREME

Well-Known Member
There's a pretty obnoxious warning bell if the throttle gets above a certain point with the flaps up, isn't there?
Yes. Takeoff config. In the 700-900ER it’s tested every leg.

We had that warning with a Fed in the jumpseat. The warning was erroneous, but we aborted the takeoff and jumped through all the hoops.

It’s annoying AF but apparently 737 crews have departed with the takeoff config warning blaring away.


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SlumTodd_Millionaire

Socialist Pig Member
Yes. Takeoff config. In the 700-900ER it’s tested every leg.

We had that warning with a Fed in the jumpseat. The warning was erroneous, but we aborted the takeoff and jumped through all the hoops.

It’s annoying AF but apparently 737 crews have departed with the takeoff config warning blaring away.


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Yep. AirTran crew took off flaps 0 with the warning blaring the whole time. Barely rotated before the end of the runway. Several attempts to duplicate in the sim resulted in crashes. If memory serves, Captain was a SCAB.
 

ian

Well-Known Member
Yes, but there's an alternative scenario being mooted about the FO possibly raising the flaps instead of the gear, a config that would explain the high speed, lack of climb and a regime (AP off/high AOA) where the MCAS might intervene.

Remember Gann pulling up the gear too early when the DC-3 was still rolling and he was a new FO?
I've seen someone do that in the C5....
 

ian

Well-Known Member
Yes. Takeoff config. In the 700-900ER it’s tested every leg.

We had that warning with a Fed in the jumpseat. The warning was erroneous, but we aborted the takeoff and jumped through all the hoops.

It’s annoying AF but apparently 737 crews have departed with the takeoff config warning blaring away.


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  1. its not just 737 crews that do that
  2. i've seen crews (via reports) that even go so far as to extend the flaps on the takeoff roll after getting the warning and continuing the takeoff
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
  1. its not just 737 crews that do that
  2. i've seen crews (via reports) that even go so far as to extend the flaps on the takeoff roll after getting the warning and continuing the takeoff
There’s a fairly large number of dc9 series accidents due to this.
 

Autothrust Blue

The frakkin’ CAG
Yes, but there's an alternative scenario being mooted about the FO possibly raising the flaps instead of the gear, a config that would explain the high speed, lack of climb and a regime (AP off/high AOA) where the MCAS might intervene.

Remember Gann pulling up the gear too early when the DC-3 was still rolling and he was a new FO?
I had a captain do that one fine day in Santa Barbara while I was flying.

“I accidentally got your flaps! Here let me get the gear!”
Me: “nonononononono—sigh”

Fortunately, we were in the Brasilia, and that airplane simply said “NO! NOTTTA RIKE DIS!” I mushed her along in ground effect to Vfs and climbed to acceleration height in the middle of a cloud of profanity.
 

Autothrust Blue

The frakkin’ CAG
  1. its not just 737 crews that do that
  2. i've seen crews (via reports) that even go so far as to extend the flaps on the takeoff roll after getting the warning and continuing the takeoff
(1) I’m pretty sure it’s -88, 717, CRJ, EM7 and literally everyone everywhere, sadly.

(2) yeeeeeeeeah, or whack the lever from 2 to 4 at 108kts when you remember you’re in SNA, and you needed 4, not 2. Or 8-20 or what have you.
 
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