Ethiopian 737 Max Crash this morning

seagull

Well-Known Member
I have always had the phobia since I was a kid. Yes, ticks are awful creatures but they lack longer legs so I can handle yanking one off skin with my fingers without screaming. Thankfully I live in the desert so ticks are very rare.
Arguably with lyme and other diseases, ticks are more dangerous than the others!
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Does anyone know if Ethiopia has the ability to read boxes or are those gonna be turned over to the NTSB, AAIB, BEA?
Didn’t someone mention Annex 13 earlier in this thread.....?

News Release: NTSB Sends Additional Investigators to Assist in Ethiopian Investigation

WASHINGTON (March 14, 2019) —The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board is dispatching three investigators to France Thursday to assist with the downloading and analysis of flight recorders from the Boeing 737 MAX 8 that crashed Sunday near Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

The NTSB investigators have expertise in recorders, flight crew operations and human factors. The French Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses (BEA) will be downloading the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder in support of the Ethiopian investigation.

The investigation is being led by the Ethiopian Aircraft Accident Investigations Bureau in accordance with the standards defined in International Civil Aviation Organization Annex 13. The NTSB appointed an accredited representative to the investigation under the ICAO standards because the airplane was manufactured in the United States. All investigative data regarding the investigation will be released by Ethiopian authorities.

For more information on NTSB participation in foreign investigations go to: Foreign Investigations.

The NTSB investigators dispatched to France will work in coordination with investigators on the ground in Addis Ababa. Those investigators were sent immediately after the accident and have been integral to the efforts underway in Ethiopia. They are being assisted by technical advisers from the Federal Aviation Administration, Boeing and GE/Safran, the manufacturer of the engines.

The NTSB is an independent U.S. federal agency charged with investigating transportation accidents and issuing recommendations to improve safety.

 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
That tick that carries the disease that makes you allergic to meat has been active on Long Island the last few years. I’m terrified of it.
Lone star tick
I've been bitten by one of them effing things once, pulled the sob right out and spent next couple of weeks listening to my guts every time I ate meat. Knew a girl from Utah who did spend a few years being meat intolerant, said it was no fun.
 

gliderboy

Well-Known Member
Due to its long takeoff roll, very high takeoff speed (207 kts), high initial climbout speeds and continuing low altitude after takeoff, there is growing suspicion that this may have been a flapless TO. Since the MCAS only functions when the flaps are up, when the a/c rotated it may have sensed excessive AOA and pitched the nose down — something it would normally only do at higher altitudes (flaps up).
 

CFIscare

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I get that. What was I told about it? That it exists. What do we train for? Stab trim runaway, and we always train for it at an altitude where a lazy recovery will still bring success.

I'm not convinced that, in the Lion Air case, knowing that it existed would have changed anything. One crew successfully recovered, maintenance pencil whipped, and the next crew wasn't as sharp or wasn't as lucky.

People seem to be offended that the system even exists in the first place. I think it's especially humorous when it's Airbus people.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
The difference being that one is a philosophy while the other is a band aid.

Ironically though, Airbus had a similar problem that fortunately did not have the same ending.

If speed is above VLS, and aircraft goes into a
CONTINUOUS NOSE DOWN PITCH RATE, which
cannot be stopped with sidestick inputs:
  1. One ADR pb . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Keep on
  2. Remaining two ADR pb(s) . . . . . . . . . . OFF

 

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
The difference being that one is a philosophy while the other is a band aid.

Ironically though, Airbus had a similar problem that fortunately did not have the same ending.

If speed is above VLS, and aircraft goes into a
CONTINUOUS NOSE DOWN PITCH RATE, which
cannot be stopped with sidestick inputs:
  1. One ADR pb . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Keep on
  2. Remaining two ADR pb(s) . . . . . . . . . . OFF
No, there really isn't a difference at all.

Any airplane is a collection of engineering that is supposed to work together to produce an outcome. There is as much variation in how those aims are accomplished as there are blades of grass.

I guarantee there were findings and meetings that resulted in compromises with the A-320 even as a clean sheet design. And augmented handling characteristics have been around since they started putting tabs on airplanes.

Latent problems that require later modification have been around even longer. From Sikorsky combustion heaters to DC-4 elevator bolts, to Lockheed and whirl mode, to rudder hardovers, pitot tubes that don't get hot enough, and whatever this turns out to be.

The hope is always that the problem shows itself in a way that's not deadly, unfortunately not the case here.

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FlyingAccountant

Well-Known Member
Due to its long takeoff roll, very high takeoff speed (207 kts), high initial climbout speeds and continuing low altitude after takeoff, there is growing suspicion that this may have been a flapless TO. Since the MCAS only functions when the flaps are up, when the a/c rotated it may have sensed excessive AOA and pitched the nose down — something it would normally only do at higher altitudes (flaps up).
There's a pretty obnoxious warning bell if the throttle gets above a certain point with the flaps up, isn't there?
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I guarantee that pilot was dead weight.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
I’m sure that type of FO is fine during the 99% of ops where everything is normalish. But yeah, something weird going on? How could they possibly have the experience to be of assistance?
 
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