Elite or ASA/On Top PCATD

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I want to get a PCATD (that's PC Aviation Training Device) for IFR training. A new Elite is 4K and a new ASA/On Top is 2.7K. They both are FAA approved to do the same thing and seem to be comparable units. I've never flown either one and wonder if any of you guys have or if you have an opinion on which one is better. I'll go with the ASA unit unless someone can convince me the Elite is worth the extra cash.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
All I have to offer is that, for 1.3 GRAND extra, the Elite should be so obviously and blantely better that you'd have to be blind not to see it; especially considering the fact that they both do the same thing.
 

cointyro

New Member
I've a question for you all... these sims have a yoke and rudder pedals, right? Do you have to use the rudder to "keep the ball centered" when you are doing sim IFR training? My cheap MS Flight Simulator has "auto rudder" so I'm always in coordinated flight. I imagine it would be much more realistic feeling if I could have pedals.

I'd like to try out a PCATD sometime, how realistic are they?
 

cointyro

New Member
Ha ha, I just realized I'll be driving Washington DC to Seattle around August 22nd... the road goes through Spokane, maybe I'll stop and try out DE's new PCATD personally! What are you planning for an hourly rate : )
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
Skyguy...sort of what I was thinking. I may be blind but was hoping someone who has flown these things has seen the light.

Josh...We are talking about FAA approved ground trainers to use for loggable IFR training. X plane doesn't cut it...

Cointyro...I have an ATC610 ground trainer that is FAA approved for IFR training but it's pretty old school compared to the new PCATD computer sims. My impression on the rudder pedals is they are a total waste of time but required by the FAA for no good reason.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
Cointyro...I don't really know but if I'm around I'll let you play with it for nothin'. I'll probably charge around $50/hr for legit IFR instruction.
 

flyguy

Well-Known Member
Well ASA's comes with both multi and single engine throttle quadrants as well as single and multi-engine aircraft. That makes sense. Elite's comes only with multi-engine throttles and only single engine aircraft. That dosn't make sense. You can use the multi-engine quadrant for single engine aircraft, but you have to pay extra for both the single engine quadrant and the multi-engine aircraft.


Elite has options for more fancy buttons, but do you have to actually have an avionics master switch in front of you for instrument training? Elite has bigger, more fancy adds in Flying magazine. I say go with ASA's cuz I would like to eventually be able to read an article in Flying without "commercial breaks".
 

SkyKingRon

New Member
Hey DE7, didn't catch that your from my neck of the woods before. The beautiful and ALWAYS RAINY Pacific NW.

I have tried both and think the Elite is better and most oppinions are for Elite. I have Elite 7.0 at home and it is quite detailed on how much you can tweek on it, but more often than not I use MSFS2002Pro for all my fun sim flying and "training" needs. The thing is MSFS it alot quicker to dial in all your info and the panels and knobs etc are bigger too. Not to mention the graphics are plain in Elite even with Gen-view, but the Elite is not for fun sim flying but for real FAA approved training as you know.

I use the CH Pro usb yoke and pedals and it adds a whole world more of realism to your sim flying. And yes you can use your pedals to crab into the wind, forward slip to lose alt fast etc and also on takeoff with P-factor you use it.

One of the most practical uses I hace for the "toy game" sim is before I take a real world flight anywhere, I ALWAYS do it on the pc first and follow on my sec chart to "see" the terrain and features. I have my pc fairly pumped and all my MSFS settings maxed out and the deatail is stunning. And really after I've made the flight virtual, and then go for real, it takes most of the anxiety out of the flight because I've "been" there before. So...

As for FAA approved the word is Elite but that is a good point on throttles and engines, I don't remember that offhand but...

Do you fly out of the NW? I'm based out HIO( Hillsboro Intl.) in Ore and trained and got my ticket out of VUO Vanc. Wa. You going to Arlington this year?

Now that I think about, with Elite, I think you can fly twins, it's just a matter of s/w, but I may be wrong, so don't quote me on it.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I fly out of Spokane Felts Field. (KSFF) Have been to Arlington before but not lately, used to do Young Eagles flights during the fly in. About 10 years ago UPS had a 727 at HIO during the Rose festival airshow. I got to be on the crew that let kids sit in the cockpit and talk to people. One of the most fun things I've ever done.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
[ QUOTE ]
I've a question for you all... these sims have a yoke and rudder pedals, right? Do you have to use the rudder to "keep the ball centered" when you are doing sim IFR training? My cheap MS Flight Simulator has "auto rudder" so I'm always in coordinated flight. I imagine it would be much more realistic feeling if I could have pedals.

I'd like to try out a PCATD sometime, how realistic are they?

[/ QUOTE ]

My uneducated yet opinationed opinion:
NO!

Reason being the fact that a HUGE part of coordination is 'feel' which cannot be simulated at the computer, you need the real thing.

Even if you do get the pedals, all you'll be doing is pushing enough to get the ball centered, which will be way different from the amount of pushing you'll need to do in the real plane.

IMHO, computer sims are good for basic control and XC work for students, and for IFR work as well. You can't simulate the control forces on the computer, nor can you 'feel' the plane moving. All you need to take advantage of FS's good qualities is a basic joystick with auto rudder set.

Sorry to hijack the thread... as you were!
 

flyguy

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Now that I think about, with Elite, I think you can fly twins, it's just a matter of s/w, but I may be wrong, so don't quote me on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can fly twins, but you have to buy an add-on twin package.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
I spent quite a bit of time at the X-plane website and checked out the Motus FTD. Nowhere did I see the words PCATD mentioned nor did I see the X-plane software bundled with a radio stack the would allow FAA approval under the PCATD advisory circular like at the Elite, Jeppesen, or ASA web sites. It looks like X-plane software running in a Motus FTD is approved for quite a bit...but at what price? They didn't seem to say...

I'm looking for the best value in a new PCATD and for advice from those who have flown them...I've never had a chance to see one. Jason, do you know of a flight school using X-plane as an instrument ground trainer for loggable IFR time? Perhaps I could check out their website.
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
[ QUOTE ]
Now, actually LOGGING this time requires you to be in a Motus full-motion sim (price tag: about $150,000.00) with an instructor, so this route will only be affordable if you train at a fight training center that uses a Fidelity Flight Simulations Motus platform... but if you want all the accuracy without the cost... then you can have it for $79.99 right here!

[/ QUOTE ]

So what they are saying is that, for personal users, you can get the software on the cheap; but if you want to teach with it (and log it) you have to dish out lots of cash.

[ QUOTE ]
Fidelity Flight Simulation has obtained FAA approval (documented here) to train pilots towards their COMMERCIAL CERTIFICATE, INSTRUMENT RATING, and AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT CERTIFICATE. This training is done in a full-motion simulator, using X-Plane 6.12 as the simulator software

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like you can't log it if it's not in a full motion sim; maybe a few emails could sort it out completely...
 
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