1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Donald Trump proposes cutting FFDO Program

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Seggy, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. drunkenbeagle

    drunkenbeagle Gang Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,366
    Likes Received:
    2,884
    Given the volume of drugs, prisoners and detainees the Coast Guard Cutters bring in to port here in St Pete quite regularly - I would say it is economically viable right now. Most of the ships and cargo are scuttled at sea, we don't have the resources now to bring them back to ports.
     
  2. MikeD

    MikeD Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    39,344
    Likes Received:
    15,320
    Stupid phone lol
     
    UAL747400 and MikeFavinger like this.
  3. MikeD

    MikeD Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    39,344
    Likes Received:
    15,320
    And we know the areas they are funneled into. It's not economically viable as of yet, to be seeing 90,000 miles of coastline being used where we're seeing small boats sailing up to the mid-Atlantic coast.

    Where do you see that USCGs budget is being cut from interdiction?
     
  4. drunkenbeagle

    drunkenbeagle Gang Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,366
    Likes Received:
    2,884
    http://www.defensenews.com/articles/lawmakers-protest-white-house-plan-to-cut-coast-guard

    1.3 billion is 13% of their budget.

    Since they can't cut payroll (it is the same as DOD pay), and security and interdiction is already well over half their budget, I can't see how the could do anything else. They could keep that spending the same, but then cutting 30+% from everything else would be tough. If aids to navigation and SAR were totally eliminated, that would cover it - but probably not a good idea. Migrant Interdiction is one of the few discretionary things they could cut in reality, at 750 million. Drug interdiction at 1.3 billion as well.

    Their budget isn't huge to begin with: https://www.uscg.mil/budget/docs/2017_Budget_in_Brief.pdf
     
    Seggy likes this.
  5. Bear

    Bear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    10
    Arrive legally, then overstay. 'In 2016, the Department of Homeland Security produced its first partial estimate of those who overstay their permits to be in the U.S. Out of 45 million U.S. arrivals by air and sea whose tourist or business visas expired in fiscal 2015, the agency estimates that about 416,500 people were still in the country this year. The nation with the most visitors who failed to leave at the end of their authorized stay was Canada, followed by Mexico and Brazil, according to the report. Among total foreign arrivals counted in the report, those three nations accounted for more than a third of those who overstayed. The country profile of foreign visitors who overstay and became unauthorized is somewhat different from that of unauthorized immigrants overall. Mexicans made up 49% of unauthorized immigrants in 2014 (including some who arrived decades ago), but according to the report, they account for only about 9% of foreigners (or 42,000 people) who arrived by air and sea, overstayed and had not left by the end of fiscal 2015. Canadians, meanwhile, account for about 1% of unauthorized immigrants in Pew Research Center’s latest estimate for 2012, but 19% of overstayers who had not departed by the end of fiscal 2015, or 93,000 people. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...sitors-to-u-s-who-overstay-deadline-to-leave/
     
  6. Lawman

    Lawman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    2,272
    Likes Received:
    2,614
    Any vessel of size enough to conceivably transport a group of decent size is going to be restricted as to where it can make port. You can't just sail a ship to any point on land, and though drug smugglers do it using rafts from larger speed boats the payoff on 4 kilos of narcotics far outweigh the money to be made transporting a small hold full of people.

    Land routes are still and always have been the low hanging fruit for smuggling. Until we do something to change that with a more robust form of layered defense than we currently have we are doing nothing to change that.

    This isn't just about illegals, it's about all the stuff that comes across that border with Mexico which MikeD and others on guard there will attest is a lot of stuff. Unlike some of the social programs people would rather spend the money on, "provide for the common defense" would actually be in the governments lane to perform as a responsibility.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. drunkenbeagle

    drunkenbeagle Gang Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,366
    Likes Received:
    2,884
    They are seizing thousands of kilos at sea around here on patrols. I would guess 90% of it is not seized though.

    Yes, container ships aren't going to pull up to sand bars. But things can and do get transferred to smaller boats 10 or 50 miles out.

    While there is almost certainly more money in narcotics trafficking, human trafficking can be lucrative too. Look at how many refugees have made it to Italy or Greece by sea - would the experience here be any different if the land border suddenly became impenetrable?

    If we do succeed in directing smuggling away from a land border and to the seas, is that really what we want? Maritime patrols will cost more (ships and aircraft are far more expensive than patrol cars), and there will certainly be more people killed on the water. Mexico to Florida is not a long way by boat - even under sail it only takes a 3 or 4 days.
     
  8. MikeD

    MikeD Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    39,344
    Likes Received:
    15,320
    They don't have the biggest budget indeed, but there are places money can be shifted around and moved, and responsibilities shifted around with other agencies where redundancy occurs, that I could see budget shell games like that happening.
     
  9. MikeD

    MikeD Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    39,344
    Likes Received:
    15,320
    There's a fair amount of stuff that isn't caught on the land borders that we know about abd even see, but don't have the manpower to interdict.

    Human smugglers have little care for their cargo though. They're paid up front, so whether some of their human cargo makes it to a destination isn't something they really care about. So many abandoned people left to fend for themselves that we find, whether on land or sea, is pretty constant. As well as females and kids sent into indentured servitude or worse. Even kids are no big deal and haven't been, although it's only finally being reported in the news. Stuff like this is common:

    http://www.desertsun.com/story/news/crime_courts/2017/03/13/border-patrol-signal-smugglers/99137838/

    Most of those assets we already have and are in operation. Surveillance/detection assets are in abundance. Multiple agencies have the interdiction assets also, but the sea is large too. So we generally know what's coming in, but like land areas, don't always catch it.
     
  10. drunkenbeagle

    drunkenbeagle Gang Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,366
    Likes Received:
    2,884
    I don't think the narco smugglers care that much about their cargo either, it is cheap where it comes from and there is always more to smuggle.

    Lots of square grouper floating around Florida....
     
  11. Derg

    Derg Naval Intelligence, MCRN Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 1969
    Messages:
    33,062
    Likes Received:
    44,655
    she be like "You paid for a whole hour, sweetie. Everything is on the table except for butt stuff as we discussed"
     
  12. Lawman

    Lawman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    2,272
    Likes Received:
    2,614
    Shipping Kilo sized profits that require no care or feeding though is a significantly higher payoff and easier process.

    What's more evidence of our success in sea interdiction is the presence of semi disposable drone submarines. That only works with the given cargo though.

    People require a lot more space, resourcing, and life support requirements to actually be a feasible form of smuggling. Even the Chinese packing people in shipping containers understand that some of them have to make it. The easier by far route is still that open expansive border that as MikeD has shown in pictures has plenty of open areas of no defensible security.

    Trump's people have already stated repeatedly the term "Wall" doesn't mean 3200 miles of brick and guard towers like his critics say, so the real cost of reinforcement down there to the systems in place aren't going to just be a ton of money sunk into a single system that by its self can't be wholesale effective. The problem is a very good size chunk of the critics don't see illegal immigration as a problem or in fact view it as a crime we would stop people from free movement across borders. Those people will ally to whatever reason (in this case fiscal responsibility) to achieve that point. A free and open 1 world society.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. drunkenbeagle

    drunkenbeagle Gang Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,366
    Likes Received:
    2,884
    Is it? Requires a supply of drugs from a cartel that may kill you. Requires a customer in the US to sell large quantity of drugs to. Requires avoiding detection from a well funded DEA, that is probably listening to your phones and email.

    Smuggling 10 people on a boat requires... A boat. At 3 grand per migrant, that is an easy 30 grand for a trafficker to make for running a speedboat for a few hours, plus probably less jail time if or when they get caught.
     
  14. MikeD

    MikeD Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    39,344
    Likes Received:
    15,320
    Only problem in that case is, depending on the type and quality of the product, if they get chased back across the border after losing their cargo or without it, there likely won't be more to smuggle for those particular smugglers. The cartel doesn't take kindly to those who cannot or don't deliver. Heck, sometimes they don't take kindly to those who even do deliver.
     
  15. MikeD

    MikeD Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    39,344
    Likes Received:
    15,320
    Human trafficking has actually been getting a much bigger light shined on it in a legal sense as of late, especially when it involves kids or females, and any kind of labor or sexual exploitation. Stories that are starting to filter out about things that have been happening for a long time now, like the abandoned 4 year old by smugglers or mass groups of people locked in tact or trailers and dying of heat stroke, are finally getting mainstream media attention. And the DOJ is coming down harder and harder on these folks as a result. Which is good.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
    drunkenbeagle likes this.
  16. NovemberEcho

    NovemberEcho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    3,617
    Isn't the USCG down to like 1 ice breaker and their Cutters are practically falling apart because they're so old?
     
    Seggy likes this.
  17. MikeD

    MikeD Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    39,344
    Likes Received:
    15,320
    Once smugglers get their cash, doesn't matter where the "human trash" is left or abandoned, even a blazing hot tractor trailer left at a Texas truck stop lot. Again, something that happens that is a lot more common than the general public knows.

     
  18. Lawman

    Lawman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Messages:
    2,272
    Likes Received:
    2,614
    Yes but they have been stretching further and further into what have been traditionally Navy missions as the Navy has been forced to retire a lot of its smaller hulls to maintain its strategic mission.

    Arguably the icebreaker mission may be a Coast Guard job, but it impacts the Navy mission so it could fall to either budget. Either way unless we invest into it heavily we will be at a disadvantage to other Navy's particularly Russia which operate a higher number of cold water ports and therefor have more of them for Arctic ops.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. NovemberEcho

    NovemberEcho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2013
    Messages:
    2,629
    Likes Received:
    3,617
    That seems like a good argument for NOT cutting the CG's budget by 13%. I don't even know where the Navy would get the money for that seeing all the trouble they're having with the LCS not living up to its hype.
     
  20. MikeD

    MikeD Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    39,344
    Likes Received:
    15,320

    Used to be a Navy job before it was a CG job, from what I understand.

    I believe the CG is back up to 3 icebreakers. They were down to 2 after having retired the Polar Star, but they brought her back into service. And are supposed to be adding 1 or 2 more in the early 2020s. Too bad that the icebreaker USCGC Glacier was scrapped a few years ago, as she was apparently sitting in somewhat good shape in the Suisun Bay reserve fleet since her decommissioning in 1987
     

Share This Page