Do they?

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Whoa whoa whoa here.

There is no reason to urge people in to going out and "building multi-time as quickly as you can."

As if low time pilots need any urging!

What they NEED is a sense of safety. Don't go jumping in to some plane you nothing about or riding along with a fly-by-night illegal 134.9 operation.

Definitely stay away from PFJ situations as well.

There is such a thing as "BAD TIME" in a logbook. Count on it.
 

MattB

New Member
Yes, and are there any majors hiring besides America West or Southwest right now? And Doug, have you ever met anybody that has been hired at a major without prior 121 time?
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, and are there any majors hiring besides America West or Southwest right now?


[/ QUOTE ]

What is this, an airline career website? Pshaw!

Oh, umm wait. Drat!

[ QUOTE ]
And Doug, have you ever met anybody that has been hired at a major without prior 121 time?

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite a few. The "non-121" segment is pretty wide (military, corporate, charter, etc)
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
Southwest, America West, ATA (things are somewhat on hold), Frontier, AirTran, Alaska (I think), and JetBlue are hiring. Also some others like Spirit and USA3000 as well.
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
Mesa is hiring.

I know I know they aren't a major, but it looks like they are headed that way:

[ QUOTE ]

Mesa Air Group eyes prospects for 737-300s
Dateline: Tuesday March 02, 2004

Mesa Air Group CEO Jonathan Ornstein said the company is looking at the possibility of operating leased 737-300s sometime in the future that most likely would fly in East Coast markets.


[/ QUOTE ]
This is from the ATW daily email.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
Hmm.. Maybe Mesa is going to be scooping up the USAir Shuttle. (I know, I know... A.net post. Sorry)

Ethan
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
Everyone here on this board should be hoping that Mesa does not do this. Mesa flying 737s could be very bad news for the profession.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
I suppose it would be good for the industry if TSA and Chicago Express flew them?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the issue here is that Mesa (and for that matter, TSA, Chicago Express, et al) would fly them at a far lower rate than anyone else in the business.

In fact, many folks would scream "yipee!" even if they're making $5/hr more than the CL-65 and rationalize it with "Well, it's not a lot more, but I'm getting a type out of it and can apply at SWA to fly it for real money."

Then everyone else with "rational" 737 rates would have the new Mesa (TSX/C8/Whatever) rates thrown in their face and management would say "Here, we want THIS, you're overpaid flybloy!" just like what happened after American slashed their rates.

I'm not trying to player-hate here, but that's just my personal, unqualified opinion.
 

MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
[ QUOTE ]
I suppose it would be good for the industry if TSA and Chicago Express flew them?

[/ QUOTE ]

None of them should have them.

The "man" needs to keep the regionals down.
 

Mr_Creepy

Well-Known Member
LOL Mike - "The MAN"

I know what you are saying Doug, and I agree somewhat...

But what's better, an established airline or a startup? Anti-trust interests will prevent another major from picking up USAirways routes. We've seen that already with the United merger attempt a couple of years ago.

Midway certainly was no prize when it came to pay rates. Starting FOs made $30/hr and 5 year captains were under $100/hr in the 737.

I expect the Mesa pay rates will be better than that.

It's time to take Mesa seriously. The pilot group is expected to top 3500 this year, making it the largest regional airline and certainly gaining on the majors. Any company flying 650 jets is going to have a large say on the market.

Whatever you say about Jonathan Ornstein - you can't say he isn't a successful businessman.
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
How is this good for the industry then? Im not sure what Mesa's 100+ seat rates are, or if they even have them yet, but i can assure you that they will not set a new standard for rates. I would expect they wouldnt even be close to anyone else.

So again, How would this be good for our profession???
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
John, any airline flying any equipment at a sub-standard rate is a detriment to us all. No matter if they've got 20 pilots or they've got 15,000 pilots.

Pilots will lovingly undercut rates "just to get the equipment on property". I can't tell you how many times I've heard "just get the aircraft on property and then we can work on bringing up the rates".

No one's trying to denigrate Mesa so don't take it personal, lets leave that to flightinfo and mesalounge. But there's absolutely no way in the world that I'm going to twist logic to justify a carrier obtaining substandard rates in order to get a particular aircraft on property.

Besides Midway was proof that even if you undercut SWA's rates, you need a lot more than cheap labor to run an airline.

Yes, I'm a pilot and I like airplanes like the next guy, but I'm a professional pilot first, and then a "wow, cool neat"-airplane guy last.

Little thing called a mortgage...
 

pilot602

If specified, this will replace the title that
[ QUOTE ]
Anti-trust interests will prevent another major from picking up USAirways routes.

[/ QUOTE ]

BS.

Frontier, Spirit, ATA, Northwest (and several other large(r) airlines) could pick up those routes and not even cause a glance from the "Antitrust" interest. Now, that doesn't mean they're going to run right out and start buying so the only airline left on the market may very well be Mesa but it's not due to antitrust concerns.

And, no offense John, but for someone who no longer flies 121 and who has said he has no intention of going back a) why do you care and b) any regional that starts flying "mainline" aircraft at RJ pay is going to damage the profession.
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
[ QUOTE ]
I suppose it would be good for the industry if TSA and Chicago Express flew them?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it would be detrimental to the industry. Any airline out there flying equipment like the 737 at substandard rates as found at the regionals is a huge step back for this profession. Midway Airlines included. I don't want Chi Ex to get 737s. I would like something other than the Saab, so we can remain profitable.

You are taking this as a personal attack, when you don't even work for Mesa.
 
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