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Direct Entry at US majors

Derg

Naval Intelligence, MCRN
Staff member
I'd rather my copilot sleep when he needs to, in cruise, rather than microsleep on arrival and approach.

I did, however, have a chat with a guy who was basically conked out from 10,000' during the climb to initial descent on several legs in a row.

New dad, new boat, options trading, commuting, etc, home renovation, etc. There's just a time to choose your top three most important things and let everything else fall by the wayside so you can at least do your primary.
 
I'd rather my copilot sleep when he needs to, in cruise, rather than microsleep on arrival and approach.

I did, however, have a chat with a guy who was basically conked out from 10,000' during the climb to initial descent on several legs in a row.

New dad, new boat, options trading, commuting, etc, home renovation, etc. There's just a time to choose your top three most important things and let everything else fall by the wayside so you can at least do your primary.
I don’t mind that as long as you clear it with the other pilot. Basically “you feeling alert enough that we won’t end up overflying MSP? I don’t want to have to make up a story about us talking about PBS.”
 
This topic has gone around enough times that “you can lead a fox to water....” becomes appropriate.
Believe me, nobody needed to 'lead' me to water. I've been aware of the damned water ever since I was a teenager, when I wanted nothing more than to go swimming, only to be told that it was only for rich kids (at least, richer than I). Through almost a quarter of a century in the tech industry, when I kept encountering people who thought that the water had rinsed from them the stench of ignorance, when in fact all it did was get them wet. After sticking my toe in several different 'official' bodies of water and discovering that it wasn't what everybody claimed.

No, I get it. I'm aware that baptism is required by the major airlines, and that they won't take heathens like me because, despite having adequately hydrated all my life, and swum in all the unrecognized ponds, swamps and rivers, I haven't been anointed with Official Holy Water.

So be it.

But there's no need to be condescending about it.

-Fox
 

mastermags

Well-Known Member *giggity*
Believe me, nobody needed to 'lead' me to water. I've been aware of the damned water ever since I was a teenager, when I wanted nothing more than to go swimming, only to be told that it was only for rich kids (at least, richer than I). Through almost a quarter of a century in the tech industry, when I kept encountering people who thought that the water had rinsed from them the stench of ignorance, when in fact all it did was get them wet. After sticking my toe in several different 'official' bodies of water and discovering that it wasn't what everybody claimed.

No, I get it. I'm aware that baptism is required by the major airlines, and that they won't take heathens like me because, despite having adequately hydrated all my life, and swum in all the unrecognized ponds, swamps and rivers, I haven't been anointed with Official Holy Water.

So be it.

But there's no need to be condescending about it.

-Fox
Well you drowned that metaphor.
 

Dphoenix

Love lasagna, hate mondays
Believe me, nobody needed to 'lead' me to water. I've been aware of the damned water ever since I was a teenager, when I wanted nothing more than to go swimming, only to be told that it was only for rich kids (at least, richer than I). Through almost a quarter of a century in the tech industry, when I kept encountering people who thought that the water had rinsed from them the stench of ignorance, when in fact all it did was get them wet. After sticking my toe in several different 'official' bodies of water and discovering that it wasn't what everybody claimed.

No, I get it. I'm aware that baptism is required by the major airlines, and that they won't take heathens like me because, despite having adequately hydrated all my life, and swum in all the unrecognized ponds, swamps and rivers, I haven't been anointed with Official Holy Water.

So be it.

But there's no need to be condescending about it.

-Fox
Right, but the waterway requires a permit whether you feel it should or not, and if you want to go down that waterway, permit required. Sure, at some point in the future, some waterways that currently require permits likely will be open due to a boat shortage. But Southern Water Ways will not likely ever not require a permit, whether you agree with it or not. So those of us who want to go down that river seek that permit whether the process is bureaucratic or not.

... This is a weird metaphor. Let's drown a horse in this river, it's more fun than beating it to death.
 
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Believe me, nobody needed to 'lead' me to water. I've been aware of the damned water ever since I was a teenager, when I wanted nothing more than to go swimming, only to be told that it was only for rich kids (at least, richer than I). Through almost a quarter of a century in the tech industry, when I kept encountering people who thought that the water had rinsed from them the stench of ignorance, when in fact all it did was get them wet. After sticking my toe in several different 'official' bodies of water and discovering that it wasn't what everybody claimed.

No, I get it. I'm aware that baptism is required by the major airlines, and that they won't take heathens like me because, despite having adequately hydrated all my life, and swum in all the unrecognized ponds, swamps and rivers, I haven't been anointed with Official Holy Water.

So be it.

But there's no need to be condescending about it.

-Fox
I guess I'm confused in the sense that you made it sound like you'd be a Skywest lifer and it's because of a lack of a 4-yr degree? The only airlines that officially require that are Delta and Fedex, and if things stay on track like how it is shaping up to be in the 2020 decade, ain't no one gonna care if you have one or not. AS/VX recently dropped their requirement. I honestly think you'll be at one of the big 6 pax carriers in 5 yrs or less.
 
I guess I'm confused in the sense that you made it sound like you'd be a Skywest lifer and it's because of a lack of a 4-yr degree? The only airlines that officially require that are Delta and Fedex, and if things stay on track like how it is shaping up to be in the 2020 decade, ain't no one gonna care if you have one or not. AS/VX recently dropped their requirement. I honestly think you'll be at one of the big 6 pax carriers in 5 yrs or less.
We’ll see what happens. I am actually really happy at SkyWest, minus the pay. But I’m sure I’d be really happy at a major/LCC, too.

75% of the people here insist that “no degree” == “no major”, and thus that’s the context I use when talking about the issue here; I’m willing to accept that it’s true for the purposes of discussion.

I also have two checkride failures (IR and ATP (on the oral, no less...)), so even if I had a degree, I wouldn’t be at the front of the pack.

I love the equipment I fly, I enjoy the people I fly with, I’m based where I live. That could change; with the chaos in my personal life, I very well may end up moving. And I’m certainly in a bad enough spot financially. Other than that, though... we’ll see what happens.

-Fox
 
We’ll see what happens. I am actually really happy at SkyWest, minus the pay. But I’m sure I’d be really happy at a major/LCC, too.

75% of the people here insist that “no degree” == “no major”, and thus that’s the context I use when talking about the issue here; I’m willing to accept that it’s true for the purposes of discussion.

I also have two checkride failures (IR and ATP (on the oral, no less...)), so even if I had a degree, I wouldn’t be at the front of the pack.

I love the equipment I fly, I enjoy the people I fly with, I’m based where I live. That could change; with the chaos in my personal life, I very well may end up moving. And I’m certainly in a bad enough spot financially. Other than that, though... we’ll see what happens.

-Fox
As Derg said above, two checkride failures are non-events as long as you own up to it and admit what happened, what you learned, and how you moved on and successfully passed. Any story that starts with "the examiner was out to get me...." or "he had to meet his failure quota that month, and I was the unlucky one...." or "I did everything fine, the examiner was being unfair..." etc. will sink you in the interview.

I wouldn't let the two failures worry you at all.

The college degree stuff you are saying about people here applies for 2012 to today. I'm talking the 2020 decade (only 2 yrs away). Barring 9/11 type events, WWIII, nuclear war, etc, the retirements alone are STAGGERING, let alone any actual growth at the big carriers. The college degree thing will become meaningless at that point.
 
As Derg said above, two checkride failures are non-events as long as you own up to it and admit what happened, what you learned, and how you moved on and successfully passed. Any story that starts with "the examiner was out to get me...." or "he had to meet his failure quota that month, and I was the unlucky one...." or "I did everything fine, the examiner was being unfair..." etc. will sink you in the interview.

I wouldn't let the two failures worry you at all.

The college degree stuff you are saying about people here applies for 2012 to today. I'm talking the 2020 decade (only 2 yrs away). Barring 9/11 type events, WWIII, nuclear war, etc, the retirements alone are STAGGERING, let alone any actual growth at the big carriers. The college degree thing will become meaningless at that point.
Don't know about thaaaaat!

While SWA, UA, AA, AS et al. and others "dropped" their degree requirement, choosing to make it, preferred. Lots of those in competition for those legacy jobs, will already have undergrad or post graduate degrees. I wouldn't bet my career on what may possibly happen. I would want to go with the bird in hand, in this case a degree. When going out for those big jobs.

Also I wouldn't ever expect DL or FedEx to drop their degree requirement. While DL may have hired some, the so called "special few", without a degree. I'd consider that equal to a Bigfoot sighting.
 
It's not the checkride failures as much as it is the ability to say "I learned something!" and the period of time between the interview and the occurrences.

If it devolves into "I got SKROOT!" you're done.
Ha, nope. One was a screwed up correction on an NDB approach, and the other was a product of extreme fatigue.

-Fox
 
Don't know about thaaaaat!

While SWA, UA, AA, AS et al. and others "dropped" their degree requirement, choosing to make it, preferred. Lots of those in competition for those legacy jobs, will already have undergrad or post graduate degrees. I wouldn't bet my career on what may possibly happen. I would want to go with the bird in hand, in this case a degree. When going out for those big jobs.

Also I wouldn't ever expect DL or FedEx to drop their degree requirement. While DL may have hired some, the so called "special few", without a degree. I'd consider that equal to a Bigfoot sighting.

Yeah, but "they all" said the same about requiring TPIC at legacy/major carriers. Afterall, those airlines are hiring future CAs. Not FOs. If that's the mentality, you'd think they'd always want to see/require at least some TPIC at a regional, corporate, military, or cargo. But we know TPIC requirements pretty much went the way of the dodo bird to the "preferred" category. Today, even though most applicants have tons of TPIC, there are still many FO-only candidates that are successfully getting hired at all the big carriers that you mentioned: SWA (a guy here with 0 TPIC got on), UA, AA, AS, and even DL.

I do believe the college degree requirement will follow that same trend. Even though most candidates will have degrees, you'll still see plenty of non-degree pilots getting hired at majors. The hiring environment for the airlines is suppose to be 3 times bad (based on retirements alone) than what it is today for them.