Direct Entry at US majors

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
@B737FLY

I can't believe what I'm reading.



So you were a ab-initio type 250-300 hr wonder into a 737.



Flying a total of 6 years, 2 yrs as CA, which means maybe 2-3 yrs as a FO tops. And only 4k total hours? 2 ys as CA means you've probably flown ~1500 hrs PIC and the rest 2000ish as a FO?


Now this is what really floors me:



Dissect this one at a time. One, your complaint isn't about one or two CAs. It sounds like a whole bunch. So either all CAs at your airline are a problem, or you are the problem. Below average CAs? By what standard? And since you only spent at most 2 to 3 yrs as a 737 FO in an airline environment, just what do you really think you know at that stage in the game to decide weak CAs?

"Managing the flight my way" and "why would I ever want to accept a right seat again"


I have news for you: you are "that" guy. Whether you know that or not, you are "that" guy. "That" guy is the CA who thinks he knows best, knows it all, and tries to model his FOs on what he thinks is best. Many times he muddles the line between technique and SOP, and piss off FOs in the process. You are most likely overbearing, on the no fly list of FOs, and your comment of "why would I ever want to accept a right seat again" reeks of entitlement, arrogance, and does NOT sound like a good, sound CA who tries to model FOs.


I have a story from my airline, and my gut feeling is this story kinda applies to you.

A couple years ago, I flew with a CA and during introductions he mentioned he had worked at Atlas for 6 yrs and it was the best flying job he ever had. He asked me my background, and I told him it was regional flying and that it was ok - lots of flying multiple legs and long duty days. He nodded and then said (again) that he used to be at Atlas and he misses the job. So having heard this twice now, I had to ask the obvious: if you liked it and it was a good flying job, then why leave to come here? His answer was that he had been a FO all 6 yrs, and that there was no upgrade coming up for him, and that many CAs there were weak, not following SOPs as in doing things differently / their own way, and he couldn't take that kinda environment as FO. So he left and came to my current company, where he upgraded very quickly because of rapid expansion at the time. So no harm, no foul, right?

Wrong.

He lets me take the first leg to Orlando on the transcon. I'm flying, but very quickly I see he has his own very particular quirks and obviously does things his own particular way. Which is ok, he is CA after all. But then a few things stand out. So as an example, we have weather up ahead, I'm looking at it. Without saying a word he keys up the mike and asks for 20 right (which, ok, he can as CA). But then he also pulls the heading bug and turns the plane 20 right. On my leg. Now I find that kinda weird. That's just one example. On every single thing he just does it. And his way. Some not really exactly matching SOP. Some things he has as a technique, he's convinced is SOP (it wasn't) and wants me to do it that way. Again, as long as it's safe, but I'll still point out politely. Anyway, there is no input, no discussion. If I suggest something, no lets do it [that other way]. His CRM was interesting to say the least.

So on the leg back from Orlando the next day, I kinda chuckled inside because I knew right then that at Atlas, his CAs weren't the ones who were weak, or lacked skills, or couldn't make decisions.... No. They were the ones who had to put up with this overbearing, dominant FO who literally ran his own show. And when he saw he couldn't get his way, had no chance of an upgrade, he left at the first chance of an airline with a rapid upgrade time so he could be CA. And I bet you if someone asked him today about moving to a FO seat on another/larger plane, his response would be "why would I ever want to accept a right seat again." My conclusion after flying with him was that without a doubt, he was basically what is referred to in aviation as "Captain right seat" while at Atlas. This is the FO who is overbearing, makes decisions without input/informing the CA, throws the book at the CA for [whatever issue], and basically runs the show from the right seat. Then when they upgrade, they become a real left seat CA and their habits are the same.


Based on what you've written, your words, your attitude, you fit that description.
*putting on my internet psychologists hat"

If you're the only "sane" one on a seniority list full of bad and unsafe pilots, chances are, you're the bad and unsafe pilot.
 
There is a huge wave of brand new first officers at my airline...my mantra is: if I don’t know your face, first thing I will ask you at briefing after “ hey man, how are you” is how many hours you have. Seems like a reasonable thing to ask and it helps me prepare for what might happen (for example a 40nm shortcut at LIRF... in an NG can become interesting for a fresh FO)
Oh joy
 
Hey! I'm a VERY standard genius, and like, really laid back.
“Hey I’m Chad. I like to have a lot of fun but I like to work when it’s time to work. I run a really relaxed show and I’m very standard and by the book. Before we get started, have you met my lord and savior Jesus Christ?”......blank stare...... “Oh and I don’t allow drinking any alcohol on my trips”.

Me: “Hey I’m Chris. I’m argumentative and I don’t take directions very well. Pleased to meet you.”
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
“Hey I’m Chad. I like to have a lot of fun but I like to work when it’s time to work. I run a really relaxed show and I’m very standard and by the book. Before we get started, have you met my lord and savior Jesus Christ?”......blank stare...... “Oh and I don’t allow drinking any alcohol on my trips”.

Me: “Hey I’m Chris. I’m argumentative and I don’t take directions very well. Pleased to meet you.”
Should probably throw a "I worship satan" in there just to set the tone.
 

BigZ

Well-Known Member
"You know... maybe if we didn't try to do 500fpm descents we wouldn't be getting crossing restrictions that require 5000fpm"
"You are the most argumentative person I've met in my entire life!!! I've got 3000 hrs in this airplane and it works! It saves fuel! And the pax are comfortable!"
"Unless we end up having to drop down at 5000fpm"
"Yes... But one of these days when the ATC doesn't mess it up I'll prove it to you!"
"I gotta say, I do admire your persistence"
".............."
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
“Hey I’m Chad. I like to have a lot of fun but I like to work when it’s time to work. I run a really relaxed show and I’m very standard and by the book. Before we get started, have you met my lord and savior Jesus Christ?”......blank stare...... “Oh and I don’t allow drinking any alcohol on my trips”.

Me: “Hey I’m Chris. I’m argumentative and I don’t take directions very well. Pleased to meet you.”
There is no God Chad, you gotta rip that bandaid off now you'll thank me later.

School is not a place for smart people Jerry, not a popular opinion, but that's my two cents.

(Everything you need to know in life can be learned by Rick and Morty.)
 

skypilot6

Well-Known Member
200? Where are you buying textbooks?

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
You'd be surprised. I've had to buy texts that were created by the school itself or for the course itself. Those were well over $200. Or buy texts that's the new edition that semester and isn't available used anywhere, I've had that happen a few times as well. In those cases your stuck buying the expensive texts because you don't have a choice otherwise.
 

Derg

Cap, Roci
Staff member
"You know... maybe if we didn't try to do 500fpm descents we wouldn't be getting crossing restrictions that require 5000fpm"
"You are the most argumentative person I've met in my entire life!!! I've got 3000 hrs in this airplane and it works! It saves fuel! And the pax are comfortable!"
"Unless we end up having to drop down at 5000fpm"
"Yes... But one of these days when the ATC doesn't mess it up I'll prove it to you!"
"I gotta say, I do admire your persistence"
".............."
Oh I've had a couple FO's like that.

- You really don't know what saves/costs fuel from your "pilot aperture".
- Don't dick with vertical speed approaching your level off altitude to 'make it smooth' because no one knows what the deuce is going on in the back of the airplane other than power changes.
- Make your restrictions
- Let the bus be a bus. It is your master. Your previous jets don't count.
 

Cptnchia

Dissatisfied Customer
Oh I've had a couple FO's like that.

- You really don't know what saves/costs fuel from your "pilot aperture".
- Don't dick with vertical speed approaching your level off altitude to 'make it smooth' because no one knows what the deuce is going on in the back of the airplane other than power changes.
- Make your restrictions
- Let the bus be a bus. It is your master. Your previous jets don't count.
“But at regional X we did it this way!”

 

Cptnchia

Dissatisfied Customer
Don't worry, there's plenty of at "premerger SJI OR NWA we did it like this!" Equal too...
I was ERB during the merger. I flew with a fNWA captain the very first day that we were allowed to. I learned a few things that day and so did he. It’s one thing to compare operating the same aircraft at two different companies, it’s another to compare flying an RJ to an 88!or 320.
 
“Hey I’m Chad. I like to have a lot of fun but I like to work when it’s time to work. I run a really relaxed show and I’m very standard and by the book. Before we get started, have you met my lord and savior Jesus Christ?”......blank stare...... “Oh and I don’t allow drinking any alcohol on my trips”. Me: “Hey I’m Chris. I’m argumentative and I don’t take directions very well. Pleased to meet you.”
There is no God Chad, you gotta rip that bandaid off now you'll thank me later. School is not a place for smart people Jerry, not a popular opinion, but that's my two cents. (Everything you need to know in life can be learned by Rick and Morty.)
Rick and Marty is fantastic. Most useful information in this thread so far. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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