Demo spins for PP students?

Acadia

Well-Known Member
How many folks out there will on occasion with the right student demo spins? I know that I wish I had been taught a little more about them as a PP student beyond just discussing what they are and how to avoid them (as well as recovery). A few CFI's I know will demo spins for interested students. These are students that the CFI is certain would not go out and try spinning an aircraft on their next solo. Im trying to decide if I will leave it as an option. Any particular opinions against or for this practice?
 

mikek123

Well-Known Member
My instructor showed me spins and taught me how to recover from them during my private. We went up for one lesson and just did spins. I thought it was a really good experience and I learned alot from it. Just because a private student isnt required to demonstrate recovering from a spin doesnt mean they won't ever get themselves into one accidently some day. It would probably be best to give the private student the spin training as one of their final lessons when they would benefit the most from it.
 

flyitup

Well-Known Member
During my Private training I asked my instructor if he thought I should learn spin recovery outside of just knowing the process to use to recover from one. He said, "While it's not a bad idea, I just don't feel real comfortable doing them myself in a 172". He went on to say that he was thinking about going out to California for a week or two and getting some additional training on unusual attitudes/spins in a Pitts.

I just kind of left the issue alone at that point; after all if he's uncomfortable doing them, then I'm really uncomfortable doing them with him! At least he was honest!

For now I just make sure I have the recovery procedure down cold, and I’m diligent to make sure the aircraft never gets into the situation that would bring on a spin.

After thinking about it, I may talk to an instructor that has a little more experience with them and see if he'll show me some.
 

BrettInLJ

Well-Known Member
My flight instructor taught me spin recovery before he let me solo. Not in the regs, but I think its a good idea considering the number of accidents that have happened from a base to final stall/spin.

Also, at the 141 school I'm training for my commercial with in Orange County, spin training in a Decathalon is part of the syllabus.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
I have 2 students in the C152, one of which is pre-solo. I'm considering demonstrating spins w/him because we commonly drop a wing during stalls (yes we're coordinated!!), and I'd like him to at least see what it is to spin and be able to recover it. (hehe..I'd teach him the proper imputs or just let go!). I wouldn't consider doing it below 6-7 thousand feet AGL. He's a good student, very safety oriented.
 

jholloway_1

New Member
My instructor demonstrated spins for me not too long ago, and he said that he's real comfortable doing them in a 152. In a 152 I was told that they will pretty much correct themselves. I had a lot of fun experiencing a spin, but definitely not do them by myself. However, I do feel pretty confident that if I had to recover I could. I'm definitely glad that I experienced a spin intentionally just in case I ever encounter a spin unitentionally.
 

Acadia

Well-Known Member
I get the same wing drop with the 150 which is what started me thinking about doing spin demos. Both the 172 and 150 are very mello aircraft to spin (compared to my only other reference which was the Zlin at Flight Safety) and I agree about having lots of altitude. I will probably get a little more familiar with both the Cessna's before I jump in with a student for spin demos.

Thanks for th input.
 

davetheflyer

New Member
I usually would do a couple of spins with a private student if they asked. I didn't force it on anyone. Stalls are terrifying enough for many students.

There were several other students to which I spontaneously demonstrated spin recovery techniques after their stall demos went awry.
 

mrivc211

Well-Known Member
Brett, Is that at Sunrise? I am a victim of that spin training in that decathalon too. Whoa, I got out looking like I had just stepped off of Superman at Six Flags.
 

chrisdahut1

Well-Known Member
After one or two nasty stalls, my position report over the pratcie area CTAF would go:

"Practice area traffic, Cessna XYZ, over the pumping station at 2000 feet northbound. Doing horribly uncordinated stalls, maybe even spins, look out below"


Meant to be taken in a humorous way, of course! (for those of you who are already feeling sorry for my students for having such a cruel instructor!!).
 

BrettInLJ

Well-Known Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Brett, Is that at Sunrise? I am a victim of that spin training in that decathalon too. Whoa, I got out looking like I had just stepped off of Superman at Six Flags.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. That decathatlon felt like a fighter jet compared to a 172. Now I have more respect for the "break" in stall break. It was cool to get some tailwheel time logged too. Did your instructor let you do the landing? If I have any money left over after getting my ratings I think I'm going to do some of their aerobatic stuff.

Did you do your training at sunrise? If so do you still fly out of there?
 

I_Money

Moderator
&gt;&gt;Meant to be taken in a humorous way, of course! (for those of you who are already feeling sorry for my students for having such a cruel instructor!!).&lt;&lt;

Once I was coming back at night, and although it was not my first night experience it was still quite a new experience for me. Well we (my instructor and myself) were cleared to land on the short runway at SNA, I was slightly high on final, and ended up going around, I flew the pattern coming in for my second try I was also slightly high and had to go around again. When I hit my mic to tell tower I was going around, they asked if I would like the long runway. My instructor hit her mic and said something to the effect, 'no thank you, he is not getting of that easily, but we might be up here all night' there were chuckles on the radio all around. I managed to make it down the next time!!
 

GliderPilot

New Member
I disagree with the posts. As a full time CFI I don't think spining the plane is a good idea. While working on my Private in a C152 my instructor spun the plane on lesson 4 when I asked about spins.

It wasn't too frightening, but I still don't think it's a good idea. The bottom line is that you never know what a student will do when in the plane alone. Ensure that your students understand what a spin is and how to aviod it. A 152 will break hard so understandin how to keep a wing from dropping using the rudders is as close as I think you should get with your PP students. If someone really want to spin I'll consider it once they're 100+ hours.

My students will be either private pilots or civillian pro pilots who won't be spinning planes. If they want aerobatic training go get some specialized training with an aerobatic instructor.

By the way, if you ever get a chance try spinning a Katana! Watch the Diamond star video first because the plane is quite docile in all aspects other than spins. It wraps up real tight and spins very quickly with only about 35 knots on the airspeed indicator.
 

flyinfool

New Member
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
If someone really want to spin I'll consider it once they're 100+ hours.


[/ QUOTE ]

As I'm sure you'd expect, I think a lot of people will have a problem with this. I certainly do. I understand the philosophy behind not spinning a Katana or a Diamond Star, but a Cessna 152 or 172's spin is a non-event and is a very good training tool so that students can recognize and recover from all phases of a spin should they get themselves into that situation.

If you're worried about a student trying spins while soloing, you shouldn't sign them off for a solo!
 

Mavmb

Well-Known Member
I think teaching spins or at least demonstrating spins to private students has a lot of value. I'm not sure about other airplanes, but in 152's spins are safe. When students have seen spins, they're usually then less anxious about stalls and do better recoveries from stalls. They see the importance of rudders!
 

Bluffster

New Member
I've done spins with a number of PP students, but certainly not all.

Generally, certain criteria have to be met before I will teach spins and recoveries:
1. They are nearing completion of their PP or are post-PP.
2. It is their suggestion.
3. They ask because they are fearful of spins and want to learn how to recover.
4. I know that the student will exercise good jugment and not go off trying to do spins by himself.
5. They listen to yet another lecture from me on the importance of using good judgment. Lecture includes topics such as legalities of aerobatics, use or non-use of parachutes, spin characteristics of the training aircraft, weight/balance and loading, appropriate altitudes and airpseeds, recovery techniques, taking good care of airplanes and so on.

My opinion is that if I can potentially save a pilot's life by giving them spin training, then it is appropriate (this is why instructors *must* learn spin recoveries). If I am only serving to endanger it, then it's definitely not appropriate. Only a careful assessment of each student can answer this question.

Certainly, there are many instructors who aren't comfortable spinning an airplane. In that case, I'd definitely recommend against it. We all should pay attention to that voice that knows the limits of our comfort zone and seek training when venturing beyond it.

Personally, I find it odd that the Jeppesen Syllabus we use for Part 141 training wants student pilots doing power-on full stalls on their second solo flight.
I haven't met a single instructor who thought this was a good idea. Normally, I respect Jeppesen, but they are way off the mark on this one IMHO. Interestingly enough, the FAA puts their stamp of approval on the syllabus, then expects us to follow the syllabus to the letter...
 

E_Dawg

Moderator
aca_dia,

I am very glad I had spin training as a private student. It did several things for me:

-lost fear of stall / spin (most of it anyways - I have a
healthy respect for them)

-gained confidence

-gained more understanding of stalls / spins, while gaining a first hand experience of what they are

-sparked more interest in aerodynamics

I actually did them with another instructor because mine at the time was very new (I was his first student - until I switched flight schools). Spinning has been some of the best training I have had as a pilot but they must be done safely and only with students who either want to or are willing to do them (i.e. do not beat them into submission
).
 

eodfe

New Member
When I was a PP student, we had a C152 that was extremley prone to breaking right or left, yes the ball would be centered. Because of this, I was very apprehensive about power on stalls. My instructor, seeing my anxiety, demoed a spin. What I learned is; I am not as afraid of spins as I was, I was able to do power on stalls without being afraid, and I will not do an intentional spin without an instructor on board until my CFI phase.
 

iceman21

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
When I was a PP student, we had a C152 that was extremley prone to breaking right or left, yes the ball would be centered. Because of this, I was very apprehensive about power on stalls. My instructor, seeing my anxiety, demoed a spin. What I learned is; I am not as afraid of spins as I was, I was able to do power on stalls without being afraid, and I will not do an intentional spin without an instructor on board until my CFI phase.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am just about done with my PPC, and I had a not so pretty experience by my standards with a power on stall. I was uncoordinated and the left wing broke "stalled" on me without me expecting it. I was flustered by it, and since then I have been apprehensive of power on stalls. I am proficient at them and demonstrate them just fine, but I still get flushed and pasty when I have to do them because of that experience. I may ask my instructor to demonstrate one before I take my checkride just so I can feel at ease of them.
 

sosugrad

New Member
With my private students I will show an insipient spin during stall practice. This allows spin recovery techniques without being in a fully developed spin. However, I have let students get themselves into a spin during uncoordinated stalls ( I was expecting it to happen so it wasn't a surprise to me
) They really do remember the recovery techniques when they have to. I guess the law of primacy works afterall!
 
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