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Delta CEO Upset Regarding Comments About US Cabin Crews

Derg

Naval Intelligence, MCRN
Staff member
#42
A customer above all wants a competent pilot, not a good looking one. I think when it comes to inflight customers would sacrifice some competency for good looks.
That's the assumption that we've used from our comfortable office chairs for years.

"I want the 17 seconds of interaction I have with a domestic flight attendant on a two hours flight to Des Moines to be something bracingly attractive".

Both as a passenger and as a captain, I'll take reliable, confident, compliant with uniform code, corporate policy (which already lays out customer services expectations and decorum) and has the ability to bottle up all that personal crap from home and put it on ice for the entirety of the duty day over "ZOOOOOOOMG she's so haaaaaaawt"

If people want to gawk at young, strongly attractive women that they have no chance in he world of scoring with, well, that's what strip clubs and yoga sessions are for.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
#43
That's the assumption that we've used from our comfortable office chairs for years.

"I want the 17 seconds of interaction I have with a domestic flight attendant on a two hours flight to Des Moines to be something bracingly attractive".

Both as a passenger and as a captain, I'll take reliable, confident, compliant with uniform code, corporate policy (which already lays out customer services expectations and decorum) and has the ability to bottle up all that personal crap from home and put it on ice for the entirety of the duty day over "ZOOOOOOOMG she's so haaaaaaawt"

If people want to gawk at young, strongly attractive women that they have no chance in he world of scoring with, well, that's what strip clubs and yoga sessions are for.
Competence and attractiveness are not mutually exclusive.
 

thevideographer

Well-Known Member
#44
Both as a passenger and as a captain, I'll take reliable, confident, compliant with uniform code, corporate policy (which already lays out customer services expectations and decorum) and has the ability to bottle up all that personal crap from home and put it on ice for the entirety of the duty day over "ZOOOOOOOMG she's so haaaaaaawt"
Laughably unrealistic expectations at some places...
 

RamRise

Well-Known Member
#45
And I have to say, I've always found it odd how so many people are offended by other people's obesity. Certainly being overweight or obese in unhealthy, but that really only affects the obese person themselves. I see the widespread obesity in our society as a sign that we live in on of the most prosperous and plentiful societies in recorded history, with a wide variety of food available to most people and where most people, even relatively poor people have access to enough food to sustain themselves. I for one count myself lucky to live in such a society; I have access to a greater quantity and variety of food at lower prices than most people throughout history could ever have dreamed of. Qatar can ridicule us as much as they like, but I'll take a society that accepts obesity over a society that accepts slavery any day. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...slavery-is-actively-facilitated-10080555.html
I hate to burst your bubble but some estimate the obesity epidemic constitutes 1/4 of all U.S. healthcare costs, that every taxpayer is responsible for , so yes, it does affect me.

I would argue that GMO feedlot cattle derived burgers, bleached enriched white flour buns, rBST laden cheese slices, corn syrup manufactured beverages and fatty addictive french fries are hardly a panacea. Many poor communties have zero access to fresh, natural food. Meanwhile in affluent areas the sheer amount of fresh produce and meat that are thrown away from the grocers we all shop at daily simply for not meeting impeccable aesthetic standards is appalling. The U.S. is not the only perpetrator but we are hardly a model society as we would need three more planet earths at our disposal for the rest of world's population to enjoy the same standard of living.

Maybe I sound like a broken record , but I would take a 1950's world of a strong middle class, were young men like me could afford a decent house, would likely marry a thin and attractive wife at a young age and then raise a family,
to the world we have today, where men's wages have been declining steadily https://www.brookings.edu/blog/jobs/2011/03/04/have-earnings-actually-declined/ and women typically party through their teens and twenties, and few millennials can afford to purchase homes in most of the domiciles we are placed in. I'm not saying times aren't still better than they have been throughout human history but you are deluding yourself if you think the 21st century U.S. is the superlative expression of society.
 
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ppragman

Direct BOOKE
#46
Maybe I sound like a broken record , but I would take a 1950's world of a strong middle class, were young men like me could afford a decent house, would likely marry a thin and attractive wife at a young age and then raise a family,
to the world we have today, where men's wages have been declining steadily https://www.brookings.edu/blog/jobs/2011/03/04/have-earnings-actually-declined/ and women typically party through their teens and twenties, and few millennials can afford to purchase homes in most of the domiciles we are placed in. I'm not saying times aren't still better than they have been throughout human history but you are deluding yourself if you think the 21st century U.S. is the superlative expression of society.
That offer was only valid for young white men in the '50's.
 

Yakob

Grand Prognosticator Nominee
#48
I would argue that GMO feedlot cattle derived burgers, bleached enriched white flour buns, rBST laden cheese slices, corn syrup manufactured beverages and fatty addictive french fries are hardly a panacea... I'm not saying times aren't still better than they have been throughout human history but you are deluding yourself if you think the 21st century U.S. is the superlative expression of society.
I never said it was or that any of those foods were a panacea. This is an imperfect world and I do not believe any nation in any era has been the "superlative expression of society". Also, since our society still has many shortcomings, I believe it is important to acknowledge them and attempt to fix them- in many cases arguing that things were worse in the past or are worse elsewhere is used as an excuse for things not being better. Still, that doesn't change the fact the life in the modern U.S.A. is better than life in most societies throughout history has been; and the fact that, for most people at least, it is far easier to become obese than to starve to death is a prime example of this.

I hate to burst your bubble but some estimate the obesity epidemic constitutes 1/4 of all U.S. healthcare costs, that every taxpayer is responsible for , so yes, it does affect me.
You could make the same argument about anything else taxpayers subsidize, or for things besides obesity that lead to a greater probability of illness or injury. And you will really only be responsible for their healthcare costs if they are poor enough they can't pay themselves. Certainly I have plenty of my income redistributed to others (for instance, to the elderly through Social Security and Medicare and to parents through public schools and dependent child tax credits) but somehow it's only acceptable to point that out if it's obesity that's costing taxpayers money...

Also, since as you point out, poor communities typically do not have access to decent, healthy food, for many people it's not really their fault they are obese.

Maybe I sound like a broken record , but I would take a 1950's world of a strong middle class, were young men like me could afford a decent house, would likely marry a thin and attractive wife at a young age and then raise a family,
to the world we have today, where men's wages have been declining steadily https://www.brookings.edu/blog/jobs/2011/03/04/have-earnings-actually-declined/ and women typically party through their teens and twenties, and few millennials can afford to purchase homes in most of the domiciles we are placed in.
You and I are in agreement here more than you realize. It worries me quite a bit that real earnings for ordinary people are declining, and I have often been ridiculed on this board and in person for taking the looming threat of widespread Technological Unemployment seriously. You are also correct that property prices are out of control compared to the past in much of the country. However, I'm not sure what any of that has to do with Flight Attendants who don't meet the appearance requirements of strippers. Your remark about women "partying through their teens and 20s" is a bit odd, too; I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything.

Also, while I was certainly not alive in the 1950s, I suspect that like many people you have an overly idealized view of them. It is easy to see why the 1950s are idealized; it is when the modern first world as we know it really started to emerge and people's standard of living here in the U.S.A. would have markedly better than before. It must have been a truly remarkable time to live through. However, while a young man like you are I may have been able to afford a decent house, there is also a good chance we could have been drafted and killed in the Korean War (people always seem to forget about that war when idealizing the '50s...). And I'm sure I'll be flamed for bringing up racial/ gender issues but most non-white people certainly didn't have much opportunity then, nor did women of any race.

Delta's 1965 Flight Attendant requirements are a prime example of this- flight attendants would have been forced to retire at 32, and then would have had few job opportunities and would quite likely be dependent on a man; and would then have little recourse if she were abused by that man compared to today. Speaking of which, from what I understand, spousal abuse was quite common in the 1950s compared to today. Contributing to that issue was the fact that so many men, through no fault of their own, had PTSD and other psychological issues from their service in World War 2 and the Korean War. There was woefully little help available for them at that time (the term PTSD didn't exist yet, and relatively little was understood about it) https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2007/3/12/310930/- , and of course most young/ middle-aged men in those days had fought in at least one of those wars.

would likely marry a thin and attractive wife at a young age and then raise a family,
Can't you still do that nowadays if you want to? I know plenty of people who have married young and began raising a family. If you believe women should be forced to retire at 32 and be evaluated by stringent, arbitrary appearance standards that might explain why no attractive women are willing to marry you.

Also, like I said before, if you had to comply with those kind of standards for your job or were forced out of work at 32 you would be howling. Also, while being sexist against women, those standards discriminate against men who want to be Flight Attendants.
 

Derg

Naval Intelligence, MCRN
Staff member
#52
Maybe I sound like a broken record , but I would take a 1950's world of a strong middle class, were young men like me could afford a decent house, would likely marry a thin and attractive wife at a young age and then raise a family,
I'm going to snipe this part of the post before I go crap, shower and shave.

The middle class was strong in the 1950's because we were making loot hand over fist rebuilding the post-war world, had GI's returning to the workforce with GI bills and dreams of building homes, businesses and the "holy crap, the Soviets are going to out gun us so we need infrastructure, defense and ingenuity".

However, that didn't apply if you were female or a minority because all of those fantastic opportunities only applied if, well, if you were a certain demographic.

Some people see the 1950's as a wonderful era of prosperity. Personally, the life I live today is completely impossible in the 1950's.

  • I'm an airline pilot: Impossible until almost the mid 1960's
  • I married a lady who isn't my race: Illegal in Arizona until the early 60's, many other states much later.
  • Owning a home in Scottsdale, the "deed restrictions" actually still exist in a few HOA's but they're largely unenforced and swept under the rug. I'll bet you a good percentage of us haven't read our CC&R's and may have that today.
  • The 1950's had "Jim Crowe" laws which my parents grew up under where even though my father was a Korean War vet, he was a second class citizen to all of the draft dodgers who sat around Alabama on deferments.

Personally, a return to the social and economic values of the 1950's is something I want nothing to do with. The 1950's were a great time full of prosperity and wonderment… on the other side of the tracks.

There's far more opportunity today than there was 70 years ago. It's just that there's much more competition for it and through technology, it's becoming globally competitive. That's great for people with ingenuity, that's terrible for people who harken back to the time when a high school diploma was all you needed to compete for the brass ring.
 
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Richman

Well-Known Member
#53
I'm going to snipe this part of the post before I go crap, shower and shave.

The middle class was strong in the 1950's because we were making loot hand over fist rebuilding the post-war world, had GI's returning to the workforce with GI bills and dreams of building homes, businesses and the "holy crap, the Soviets are going to out gun us so we need infrastructure, defense and ingenuity".

However, that didn't apply if you were female or a minority because all of those fantastic opportunities only applied if, well, if you were a certain demographic.

Some people see the 1950's as a wonderful era of prosperity. Personally, the life I live today is completely impossible in the 1950's.

  • I'm an airline pilot: Impossible until almost the mid 1960's
  • I married a lady who isn't my race: Illegal in Arizona until the early 60's, many of states much later.
  • Owning a home in Scottsdale, the "deed restrictions" actually still exist in a few HOA's but they're largely unenforced and swept under the rug.
  • The 1950's had "Jim Crowe" laws which my parents grew up under where even though my father was a Korean War vet, he was a second class citizen to all of the draft dodgers who sat around Alabama on deferments.

Personally, a return to the social and economic values of the 1950's is something I want nothing to do with.
Plus polio, measles, mumps and a whole host of other unpleasant pitfalls of childhood.

Agree. I'll pass as well.
 

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
#56
I'm going to snipe this part of the post before I go crap, shower and shave.

The middle class was strong in the 1950's because we were making loot hand over fist rebuilding the post-war world, had GI's returning to the workforce with GI bills and dreams of building homes, businesses and the "holy crap, the Soviets are going to out gun us so we need infrastructure, defense and ingenuity".

However, that didn't apply if you were female or a minority because all of those fantastic opportunities only applied if, well, if you were a certain demographic.

Some people see the 1950's as a wonderful era of prosperity. Personally, the life I live today is completely impossible in the 1950's.

  • I'm an airline pilot: Impossible until almost the mid 1960's
  • I married a lady who isn't my race: Illegal in Arizona until the early 60's, many other states much later.
  • Owning a home in Scottsdale, the "deed restrictions" actually still exist in a few HOA's but they're largely unenforced and swept under the rug. I'll bet you a good percentage of us haven't read our CC&R's and may have that today.
  • The 1950's had "Jim Crowe" laws which my parents grew up under where even though my father was a Korean War vet, he was a second class citizen to all of the draft dodgers who sat around Alabama on deferments.

Personally, a return to the social and economic values of the 1950's is something I want nothing to do with. The 1950's were a great time full of prosperity and wonderment… on the other side of the tracks.

There's far more opportunity today than there was 70 years ago. It's just that there's much more competition for it and through technology, it's becoming globally competitive. That's great for people with ingenuity, that's terrible for people who harken back to the time when a high school diploma was all you needed to compete for the brass ring.
Word.

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MikeD

Administrator
Staff member
#57
  • I'm an airline pilot: Impossible until almost the mid 1960's
Which is odd in a sad way, because in the 1940s on, you could be an Army/Air Force pilot/navigator, and by the late 40s, a Naval Aviator or Observer/Flight Officer. Why that wasn't good enough for the airlines to break with society and embrace back then, is an unfortunate rejection of a solid talent pool.

  • Owning a home in Scottsdale, the "deed restrictions" actually still exist in a few HOA's but they're largely unenforced and swept under the rug. I'll bet you a good percentage of us haven't read our CC&R's and may have that today..
The town of Summerhaven, AZ had some kind of local ordnance like that supposedly, possibly long forgotten and still on the books.
 

trafficinsight

Well-Known Member
#58
Which is odd in a sad way, because in the 1940s on, you could be an Army/Air Force pilot/navigator, and by the late 40s, a Naval Aviator or Observer/Flight Officer. Why that wasn't good enough for the airlines to break with society and embrace back then, is an unfortunate rejection of a solid talent pool.
So much for "not a social experiment."



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Cptnchia

Dissatisfied Customer
#60
The town of Summerhaven, AZ had some kind of local ordnance like that supposedly, possibly long forgotten and still on the books.
Lotta places have some crazy ass old laws still on the books.

SC had one where you could take your wife to the courthouse steps on Sunday, and at 12 noon, put her over your knee and whip her with a switch as punishment for any offenses committed during the week. Only came to light when a man did just that and could not be prosecuted for spousal abuse because it was a valid law. It led to a massive clean up of State Code.