DCA Arrival...

Krystal

Dispatch Betty
At the risk of this already being posted, has anyone seen the new FRDMM1 RNAV arrival for DCA? Im not sure if Im supposed to think it is totally cool or totally creepy. Something about being filed DCT SEPII weirds me out a bit.

(Thank you MikeCWeb for getting this image for me since my computer is pain in the posterior)

599323_874446715008_1193117784_n.jpg
 

tlewis95

I drive planes
Huh...interesting. They really went all out with the naming on this one.

They all make sense except for "FERGI." What does she have to do with anything? :confused2:
 

Nark

Sheepdog
I thinks it's awesome.

Allows for idle descents from the flight levels. This is of course someone doesn't mess up crossing speeds.
 

dasleben

That's just, like, your opinion, man
Screw the names, this arrival would be a tremendous pain in the ass for the VNAV. 280 knots? That's a really crappy speed while trying to stay on the descent profile! Shoulda called it the SPDBK 1. :)
 

Krystal

Dispatch Betty
Screw the names, this arrival would be a tremendous pain in the ass for the VNAV. 280 knots? That's a really crappy speed while trying to stay on the descent profile! Shoulda called it the SPDBK 1. :)
Lol. Awe come on, wheres your sense of adventure, man!
 

Nark

Sheepdog
I'm old school, on a new school airplane.

You should be able to fly the aircraft without needing "the boards." Granted, some controllers eat stupid sandwiches and slamdunk you. Thus necessitating a bumpy descent.

My only disdain for these new approaches is the added phraseology.
 

dasleben

That's just, like, your opinion, man
You should be able to fly the aircraft without needing "the boards."
Guess you've never flown a 757! :)

Hell, even in the 767, which is actually less slippery, you can't always avoid using them. Almost all descents are done at idle by necessity already, so there's not much you can do if you need to get down faster or slow.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
The arrival was built by US Airways and pushed through the FAA process. There is another few going in to place in CLT and another one for PHL eventually. I guess they already have one in PHX that is up and running. I like the idea behind it, but it's going to be a high workload arrival until people figure out how to do it.

Screw the names, this arrival would be a tremendous pain in the ass for the VNAV. 280 knots? That's a really crappy speed while trying to stay on the descent profile! Shoulda called it the SPDBK 1. :)
I agree that you are going to be using the speed brakes a lot. There aren't THAT many 767/757s going into DCA though so I guess they figured it wasn't a problem.

I'm old school, on a new school airplane.
You should be able to fly the aircraft without needing "the boards."
Apparently you haven't ever flown a big airplane. (not a knock... just a comment). I know on all the RJs everybody teaches that using the spoilers are a sign of weakness/lack of planning on your part, but once you get some more weight involved and a better wing, it pretty much is a necessity if you want to descend at anything more than a 1000 fpm.
 

Nark

Sheepdog
No sir!

However I feel your pain, sometimes. The Jungle jet does not like to slow down and get down at all.

I love the approach controllers when they say "Descend to 4000' slow to 210."
Well dude, it one or the other, not both...
 

C150J

Well-Known Member
but it's going to be a high workload arrival until people figure out how to do it.
I agree - crews operating aircraft without coupled VNAV will definitely have a higher workload on this one. I'm assuming people in your schoolhouse will be messing with this one prior to use!
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
I'm assuming people in your schoolhouse will be messing with this one prior to use!
I hope so. We got a 1 page memo on them a few weeks ago. It really didn't say anything other than the fact that these ODPs are fuel efficient and take a lot of work to fly so pay attention.

Very helpful.
 

dasleben

That's just, like, your opinion, man
No sir!

However I feel your pain, sometimes. The Jungle jet does not like to slow down and get down at all.

I love the approach controllers when they say "Descend to 4000' slow to 210."
Well dude, it one or the other, not both...
I hear ya, but really, it's just another flight control. Not sure where the "Don't use them unless absolutely necessary" thing came from. Passengers don't even look up from their books when the boards come out, assuming you're smooth about it. The key is in how smoothly and slowly you crack them. :)

BobDDuck hit the nail on the head about the weight and better wings, too; I never flew the "Brazilian Boeing," but I remember doing above-idle descents all day long in the E145...it just didn't have a good enough wing, or enough momentum, to require idle descents all the time.
 
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