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daily pic

Box hauler

Well-Known Member
It's only been flying ETOPS for 10 days now and just one airframe, but so far no issues. It *seems* like PW solved the problems they were having. The only ongoing concern I know of is that start times can be REALLY long (like 4 minutes per engine long), but it's burning about 2.2K per side per hour which is crazy when you think about the fact that it's a 200K airplane.
If I remember correctly ( it's been about 3 months since I flew the neo ) the start process is in the area of 3-4 minutes but most of that is a dry motoring cool down process ( even if it's already cool :ooh: ) so it's really only burning fuel for a minute or so during the start. I could be wrong but I believe that's how it works. I hope PW has fixed the issue because it's a great airplane but I know we blew one of the "new" neo motors up around a month or so ago. The CA said it sounded like this...
 
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If I remember correctly ( it's been about 3 months since I flew the neo ) the start process is in the area of 3-4 minutes but most of that is a dry motoring cool down process ( even if it's already cool :ooh: ) so it's really only burning fuel for a minute or so during the start. I could be wrong but I believe that's how it works. I hope PW has fixed the issue because it's a great airplane but I know we blew one of the "new" neo motors up around a month or so ago. The CA said it sounded like this...
Does it always go through the whole thing? Our GENEX engines on the ocho are smart enough to figure out if it is warm enough to fire right up or if it needs to take three days.

Takes long enough that I’ve forgotten that we were starting engines.
 

Box hauler

Well-Known Member
Does it always go through the whole thing? Our GENEX engines on the ocho are smart enough to figure out if it is warm enough to fire right up or if it needs to take three days.

Takes long enough that I’ve forgotten that we were starting engines.
The time changes but I usually seem to get them after they have sat for a few hours and the cool down is around 1.5-2 minutes and then the roughly 1 minute startup.
 

Nark

Well-Known Member
It's been over a years since I flew the NEO, but it's always been a long time before the "cooling" disappeared during the start sequence.

Engine Cooling
Before a start (automatic or manual) or before a manual dry crank cycle, the FADEC can command an automatic dry cranking (engine cooling) to prevent any potential bowed rotor condition. During this engine cooling, the FADEC logic limits the maximum N2 around 10%.
Note: A bowed rotor can occur when engineinternal components cool at different rates, leading to unequal thermal expansion. This can cause some deflection (or bow) of the rotor shaft.
The engine cooling time depends on the engine temperature at shutdown, the length of time the engine has been shutdown, the current ambient temperature, and the engine oil temperature.
When the FADEC is powered and if engine cooling is required, a COOLING indication appears on the E/WD for both engines with the expected engine cooling time indicated.
When the engine cooling process is completed, the COOLING indication and the expected engine cooling time disappear.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
It's been over a years since I flew the NEO, but it's always been a long time before the "cooling" disappeared during the start sequence.
What you posted is the generic Airbus/PW language and is correct. It seems to depend on how warm/cool the engine is at the initiation of the start. I've seen it take up to 3 minutes of cranking on an engine at worst, and at best (cool morning in PDX) it started the normal start sequence right away. The time isn't always the same on both engines also. With dual cooling, you are supposed to wait and see if there is a cooling time being applied on the second engine and if there is, press the button. It then decides if it can motor both engines at once (not sure what it's actually checking here... I want to ask a PW tech the next time I see one) and if it's ok with that, it spins number 1 while spinning (and starting) number 2. If for whatever reasons it can't dual cool, it pops up an EICAS message and you turn off the button.

And just so we get the picture thread back on track...

20180122_151610-01.jpeg
 

Nark

Well-Known Member
It's been over a years since I flew the NEO, but it's always been a long time before the "cooling" disappeared during the start sequence.
What you posted is the generic Airbus/PW language and is correct. It seems to depend on how warm/cool the engine is at the initiation of the start. I've seen it take up to 3 minutes of cranking on an engine at worst, and at best (cool morning in PDX) it started the normal start sequence right away. The time isn't always the same on both engines also. With dual cooling, you are supposed to wait and see if there is a cooling time being applied on the second engine and if there is, press the button. It then decides if it can motor both engines at once (not sure what it's actually checking here... I want to ask a PW tech the next time I see one) and if it's ok with that, it spins number 1 while spinning (and starting) number 2. If for whatever reasons it can't dual cool, it pops up an EICAS message and you turn off the button.

And just so we get the picture thread back on track...

View attachment 41719
Yes of course....
My contribution....

 
What you posted is the generic Airbus/PW language and is correct. It seems to depend on how warm/cool the engine is at the initiation of the start. I've seen it take up to 3 minutes of cranking on an engine at worst, and at best (cool morning in PDX) it started the normal start sequence right away. The time isn't always the same on both engines also. With dual cooling, you are supposed to wait and see if there is a cooling time being applied on the second engine and if there is, press the button. It then decides if it can motor both engines at once (not sure what it's actually checking here... I want to ask a PW tech the next time I see one) and if it's ok with that, it spins number 1 while spinning (and starting) number 2. If for whatever reasons it can't dual cool, it pops up an EICAS message and you turn off the button.

And just so we get the picture thread back on track...

View attachment 41719
Needs moar sea dragon!
 

Inverted

Resignation in lieu of champ
Our CFM NEOs have been doing pretty well. Ironically, the 3min cool/heat sequence doesn't seem to be enough, we were sent out an engine warm up mx procedure that as to be done if the temperature gets low enough which consists of running the engines for 30 min.
 

Nark

Well-Known Member
I sure don't miss that building. Enjoy
Within 10-15 minutes of snapping that pic:

Me to Newhire FA's "Hey guys welcome!"
deer in headlight FA, "Thanks!! Are you a pilot?"
Me "Yes."
Them, "ahh cool, what do you fly?"
Me with a confused look on my face... "ahhhh the Airbus?!?!"


For those not following the game.... we only fly 1 type of airplane, here at Cheap Ass Air.
But for the girls, fresh off the Midwest Farms, I guess the 319,320 and 321 are all different...
 

Skåning

Well-Known Member
What you posted is the generic Airbus/PW language and is correct. It seems to depend on how warm/cool the engine is at the initiation of the start. I've seen it take up to 3 minutes of cranking on an engine at worst, and at best (cool morning in PDX) it started the normal start sequence right away. The time isn't always the same on both engines also. With dual cooling, you are supposed to wait and see if there is a cooling time being applied on the second engine and if there is, press the button. It then decides if it can motor both engines at once (not sure what it's actually checking here... I want to ask a PW tech the next time I see one) and if it's ok with that, it spins number 1 while spinning (and starting) number 2. If for whatever reasons it can't dual cool, it pops up an EICAS message and you turn off the button.

And just so we get the picture thread back on track...

View attachment 41719
Yes of course....
My contribution....

Here's one of ours, before it gets painted in eskimo graffiti

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IMG_0593.JPG