Current state of flight schools/student loads

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
The customer service guys at my flight school before we temporarily shut the doors were getting a LOT of calls from current 121 pilots. They were pilots who feared furlough and were looking for part time instruction opportunities. Since most of those guys have not just CFI but CFI-I, they'll probably get the preferential hiring outside of the ones we train ourselves. Food for thought.
 

OCK2F

Well-Known Member
Out of curiosity, for the schools where demand hasn't changed much, are they still hiring? I've been checking climbto350 and other job sites pretty much every day and haven't seen much in the way of CFI jobs. I'm in the D.C. area now, but I had interviews scheduled with schools in NJ, NY, and MA that were understandably put on hold.
 

FlapOperator

Any traffic please advise
the ones we train ourselves
How common would you say it is for a school to hire a lad fresh off the boat, who's worked hard on his commercial and CFI with that same school, and the guy has work experience in teaching in and outside of aviation and is fairly normal in the brains?

Just out of curiosity ;)
 

Yakob

Grand Prognosticator Nominee
Because other low time jobs just disappeared. What took 250 hours and a wet commercial last month now will be able to pick guys with 1-2000.
Would they be likely to choose someone with 1-2000 hours? I've often gotten the sense that low time jobs tend to be suspicious of candidates with a lot of flight time because they may be a flight risk, and although that may not be an issue any more since there probably won't be much hiring for years to come, a lot of people think things will pick back up in a few months. On the other hand in my low time days it seems like 500 hours was a common minimum for insurance reasons, maybe 400 hours in some cases. A bigger factor is there will be far fewer openings for low time jobs because hardly anyone will be leaving them now that the airlines have stopped hiring.

How common would you say it is for a school to hire a lad fresh off the boat, who's worked hard on his commercial and CFI with that same school, and the guy has work experience in teaching in and outside of aviation and is fairly normal in the brains?

Just out of curiosity ;)
You'd probably know the flight school better than any of us, but it seems like many flight schools prefer to hire their own CFI students. That was definitely the case at the school I did most of my training including my CFI at, at went on to instruct at.

Since most of those guys have not just CFI but CFI-I, they'll probably get the preferential hiring outside of the ones we train ourselves. Food for thought.
I wonder how true that is- I could see them preferring someone who is fresh in the flight training world over someone who has done no flying outside of the airlines recently, unless the furloughed airline pilot has a lot of experience instructing. It's been 6 years since I've actively instructed and if I get furloughed from my airline and go back to instructing I would probably be rusty at instructing at first. Then again there's also a huge learning curve as a brand new instructor as well.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
Would they be likely to choose someone with 1-2000 hours? I've often gotten the sense that low time jobs tend to be suspicious of candidates with a lot of flight time because they may be a flight risk, and although that may not be an issue any more since there probably won't be much hiring for years to come, a lot of people think things will pick back up in a few months. On the other hand in my low time days it seems like 500 hours was a common minimum for insurance reasons, maybe 400 hours in some cases. A bigger factor is there will be far fewer openings for low time jobs because hardly anyone will be leaving them now that the airlines have stopped hiring.
When it takes 3000 hours to get an interview at a regional, 1000 to fly survey, 1500 for right seat 1900 works just fine. If we go back to those days, which for the vast history of aviation is the norm.
 

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
How common would you say it is for a school to hire a lad fresh off the boat, who's worked hard on his commercial and CFI with that same school, and the guy has work experience in teaching in and outside of aviation and is fairly normal in the brains?

Just out of curiosity ;)
There is one flight school that I know of that almost always only hired their own graduates. It was sort of the new CFIs reward for dropping all that cash during their training.

The flow back from the airlines to GA is a real thing, I know several people that made the jump from their 91 or 135 job to 121 in the last few years and they've all reached out to their previous employer about coming back, even if it is in the right seat or other probationary position.
 

Yakob

Grand Prognosticator Nominee
When it takes 3000 hours to get an interview at a regional, 1000 to fly survey, 1500 for right seat 1900 works just fine. If we go back to those days, which for the vast history of aviation is the norm.
Ah I didn't realize you were talking about "right seat 1900" specifically, I thought you meant low time jobs in general, CFI, etc.
 

Sculprit

Well-Known Member
Is there a plan to bring more Chinese back soon or is that going to take time? That school must be losing lots of money not having them come.
The pipeline is there, just the flow has stopped for now. If they didn’t diversify a few years ago and start the domestic/pathway side things would probably be a lot worse.
 

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
I wonder how true that is- I could see them preferring someone who is fresh in the flight training world over someone who has done no flying outside of the airlines recently, unless the furloughed airline pilot has a lot of experience instructing. It's been 6 years since I've actively instructed and if I get furloughed from my airline and go back to instructing I would probably be rusty at instructing at first. Then again there's also a huge learning curve as a brand new instructor as well.
I could have worded what I wrote better.

My point was that the flight school is going to hire its own student-CFIs first - the mantra "Train where you want to work" applies here. It's the reason I picked the place I did - there are 4 other airports more convenient to me than the one I trained out of for CFI.

After that - if we still need pilots - I suspect we'd select 121 pilots. Given the situation, we'd probably pick 121 pilots who were former CFIs at same school. :)
 

FlapOperator

Any traffic please advise
This is very interesting advice imo.
Train where you want to work
Back in Brazil (I started flying in the South of Brazil) networking matters greatly. When looking for a place to do my CFI, I chose a school which I thought had a shortage of CFIs over this other school where people knew me and I had done my commercial with, but had a long wait line of CFIs waiting to be hired.
Long story short, I got bypassed at the other place by a guy who finished his CFI a month later, but knew everybody in the schools management.

Maybe I was too naive, but to further this discussion, do you guys think networking always beats demand?
 

Bamaaviator

Well-Known Member
This is very interesting advice imo.


Back in Brazil (I started flying in the South of Brazil) networking matters greatly. When looking for a place to do my CFI, I chose a school which I thought had a shortage of CFIs over this other school where people knew me and I had done my commercial with, but had a long wait line of CFIs waiting to be hired.
Long story short, I got bypassed at the other place by a guy who finished his CFI a month later, but knew everybody in the schools management.

Maybe I was too naive, but to further this discussion, do you guys think networking always beats demand?
Not necessarily, I’ve been offered jobs at many different flight schools, and I hadn’t known anybody who worked there. I just picked up the phone and told them who I was, that I was interested in working for them, and who can I send a resume to if it’s not advertised on their website. It all depends on how you present yourself in my opinion.

If you’re looking at longer distances from where you’re currently at, and I would say this goes for academy style schools, definitely have a resume that’s reviewed by someone else before sending it off. If they ask for an application to be filled out, go over it several times and check your spelling and grammar. You would think people would do this, but you’d be surprised how many applicants don’t. And if you do a walk in, dress the part, don’t dress like you’re about to go to the beach or something (I’ve seen that before, yes). But don’t wear a suit though lol, it’s not an airline job.

I worked where I was trained at for my first CFI job, and I would definitely say it’s more common for CFI’s to get jobs where they trained at. However you can definitely get hired somewhere you want to work at if you didn’t train there. It’s not common, but not rare either. It’s all on how you sell yourself. Sometimes it will work, other times it doesn’t.
 
I got an email from Aeroguard yesterday offering, $5k off their Pathway program, with the future COVID-19, low-cost government loans, from the $2 trillion stimulus package.

I finish up my commercial single next month and already have a Skywest seniority number as a Cadet. So, I don't need $5k off of the entire Pathway program. But wondering if I would I qualify for the low-cost government loans to be able to attend Aeroguard, to get my multi-engine add-on and my CFI, CFII though? And then CFI for Aeroguard afterwards.

Anyone from Aeroguard want to take a stab at this question?
 

Pépé le Pilot

Well-Known Member
The flight school I work at in KRHV is closed due to county ordinance(all non-essential businesses closed until at least April 7th). However, it was extremely busy up until then, with a good mix of part 141 students from Asia and part 61 students doing their thing. I was very impressed with how busy all the schools in the area are, no shortage of CFI jobs and steady hours in the Bay Area.
You work at Nice ? Dang I didn’t know that, I spent 10 days in the Bay renting from Aerodynamic, I would have swung by and buy you a beer !
 
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