Crew Walks off over Autistic Passenger Request?

Zapphod Beblebrox

Well-Known Member
A few items form the FAA / DOT on ADA compliance....Just to muddy the waters. Disabled persons do not have to provide advanced notice of travel.

The crew has been grounded.

It looks like the crew will get more training...https://www.wrcbtv.com/story/40957370/airline-crew-accused-of-refusing-to-accommodate-traveler-with-autism-to-undergo-additional-training

I made some assumptions in my first post which drew some criticism. Most of those assumptions have come true, I used those assumptions based on experience both with the industry and with my personal experience dealing with those with Autism.
 
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Zapphod Beblebrox

Well-Known Member
In the last section of the DOT website that deals with the ADA, in “Administrative Provisions” of the Act, the airline is required to provide a specially trained “Complaint Resolution Official”. It looks like that didn’t happen here. I know that I have never been trained in that capacity nor have flight attendants, that I am aware of. “Heavy Duty CS Drone” is an apt moniker.
 
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broncoav8r

Well-Known Member
Just for clarity since it seems to get muddied up.

The ADA covers everything from the curb to the edge of the jet bridge.

The ACAA covers from the edge of the Jetbridge onward (actual airplane)

They are similar in some ways, but different in more than you would think. The biggest difference:

Dept. of Justice monitors ADA compliance.

Dept. of Transportation monitors the ACAA.

One of above is far more effective than the other.
 

dustoff17

Well-Known Member
A few items form the FAA / DOT on ADA compliance....Just to muddy the waters. Disabled persons do not have to provide advanced notice of travel.

The crew has been grounded.

It looks like the crew will get more training...https://www.wrcbtv.com/story/40957370/airline-crew-accused-of-refusing-to-accommodate-traveler-with-autism-to-undergo-additional-training

I made some assumptions in my first post which drew some criticism. Most of those assumptions have come true, I used those assumptions based on experience both with the industry and with my personal experience dealing with those with Autism.
Hmmmm……..no!
The public perception of what took place exceeded both the legal and the policy of the airline. THIS is why the crew has more training to do.

In THIS case, the airline was very accommodating to the ADA person. There is nothing on the original article nor follow on articles that indicate otherwise. The issue here is that the FAMILY members wanted "special consideration" also. Stupid!! Just stupid...

And while it is correct that advance notice is not "required" for an ADA person, the result of not notifying has revealed itself here in this case. So people can feel free to go to the airport and "insist" that they get to sit next to an ADA person that they were fully aware needed help. But for some unknown reason, these people refused to made the necessary arrangements.
THEN, by all means, expect the airlines to adjust to their ineptness.
 

Nark

Sheepdog
Speaking of awkward, when one of your flight attendants cuts off someone he thought was a belligerent drunk, then the accused drunk gets out of an Uber at your layover hotel and swiftly identified the crew and wants to argue about it.
See, that’s where your company has gone wrong. You should be in the limo/van well before the exit row pax are deplaning.
 

Bandit_Driver

Gold Member
Didn't have time to read all the article...But WTF does a FA lose his/her poop over a pax switching seats voluntarily? This is the first time I have heard of an FA losing it over a seat switch. This happened when a FC pax gave his seat to a military person in Class A's.

Why didn't the CRO deescalate the issue?

Why were the seats split to begin with? I've been seeing this more and more. Mom in 12A 3 year old 22B...WTF

Love to know wth the captain and fa were thinking
 

Johnny Beau Bekkestad

Well-Known Member
Its all speculation until we know what happened.
What i've read online is that the FA used some kind of phraseology as safety of flight or hazard. Once they did that they tied the captains hands.
I would have done the same as this CA as soon as i was told that by my FA.
However, during my briefs, i ask my FA to brief me as to what they perceive is going on rather than informing what has to be done.
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
Why were the seats split to begin with? I've been seeing this more and more. Mom in 12A 3 year old 22B...WTF
If you book through a third party you usually can’t pick seats. You have to go the airline website and check in no earlier than 24hours in advance where you can pick your seat(s) from whatever is left over.
 

ZeroPapaGolf

Well-Known Member
Its all speculation until we know what happened.
What i've read online is that the FA used some kind of phraseology as safety of flight or hazard. Once they did that they tied the captains hands.
I would have done the same as this CA as soon as i was told that by my FA.
However, during my briefs, i ask my FA to brief me as to what they perceive is going on rather than informing what has to be done.
Are the captain's hands really tied in that case? What if the FA said "16C asked for a glass of water. It's a safety of flight issue, I want him gone". Where is the line where the captain overrules the FA's magic words?
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
If you book through a third party you usually can’t pick seats. You have to go the airline website and check in no earlier than 24hours in advance where you can pick your seat(s) from whatever is left over.
Do people even save much money with these third party sites anymore? I remember when that was a huge difference and I always used Orbitz or something. Then it started to be negligible, or sometimes even more. Now I just don’t even bother.
 

Johnny Beau Bekkestad

Well-Known Member
Are the captain's hands really tied in that case? What if the FA said "16C asked for a glass of water. It's a safety of flight issue, I want him gone". Where is the line where the captain overrules the FA's magic words?
Yes, i believe the hands are tied, of course your scenario does not make much sense, but you would probably not be able to continue a trip with the FA as the trust will be gone.
As others have said, instead of the CA saying, come to me and i've got your back 100%, a better way is, come to me and inform me if there is a concern about a situation on the back, and perhaps when the FA comes and says, i need to talk to you about a pax, you stop the FA and say, before you tell your conclusion, brief me on whats going on. Then after the FA is done and have not used any special words, you can go out there and assist.
Its like saying the word BOMB at TSA... it might be fun to do one, but you wont enjoy it in the long run...
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
Do people even save much money with these third party sites anymore? I remember when that was a huge difference and I always used Orbitz or something. Then it started to be negligible, or sometimes even more. Now I just don’t even bother.
I'm not sure. I always book through Chase now to use my points etc but even with them I have to do the pick a seat on check in 24 hours ahead of time. But the prices I see with them are usually the same as on the airline website,
 

thevideographer

Well-Known Member
Your hands are never really tied. The only time your hands are tied is when ramp finds something for you on the preflight. I don’t see why an FA saying “safety of flight” ties my hands if I determine it’s not a safety issue.
 

phill1174

Well-Known Member
I've learned to quickly say "Don't answer that." when it's not an emergency ding and we're in ORD/LGA/whatever busy craphole.
"Sorry I didn't give the people an update. We're busy trying to cross-bleed an engine, coordinate a reroute, and the automated OCC message is already bitching at me because we've been taxiing so long."
Our FA’s have that bad. I’m good about not leaving people in the dark but they’ll call up wanting me to make an announcement every few mins because pax are starting to look at them. If I don’t have anything new to pass along there’s nothing for me to say.
 
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