Concessions and Furloughs

Flagship_dxer

Legacy Airline Dispatcher
October 1 is fast approaching. Most passenger airline workgroups may need to decide soon on furlough mitigation measures. If concessions are agreed upon to save jobs, some may be temporary and others may be permanent depending on what each workgroup agrees on with their management. In the case of non-union airlines, there might not be a choice.

With the major airlines making great strides forward in their recent contracts, the profession has become more desirable as a long term career than ever before. For those that are considering dispatch as a career, trying to get into the dispatch career, or trying to make the move into major airline dispatching, how does the possibility/probability that the career could look very different in a few months time influence your thinking about the career as a long term or life long investment?

Could the cargo airlines become the more desirable career over passengers airlines despite the work being midnight heavy due to the stability, job security and possibly higher pay, better work rules?
 

paincorp

Well-Known Member
While I think we may see some people start to favor cargo, and I agree, we should all be watching the cargo airlines right now, I don't think this will keep anyone from applying to the mainline shops. I don't know anyone that is actively trying to get out of their regional that has the mindset of "I'm only leaving for xxxx."

There are a few people that are content, and would leave if they got their preferred shop, but the vast majority of the people I know follow the philosophy of "if they're hiring, I'm applying."

Concessions will be far easier to get from mainline. It's harder to squeeze employees that are already living paycheck to paycheck to give even more back to the company, when they basically live to work. On top of that, regionals are paid per flight, so if they're staffed with "enough" (which they never are) dispatchers then they're making the same profit they were before this, assuming same staffing guidelines. It's hard to add too much more to a regional dispatcher's plate if they have a full load of flights.

Those mainline guys using OT to buy a second home, though, may end up hurting.
 

TJ94

Well-Known Member
For those that are considering dispatch as a career, trying to get into the dispatch career, or trying to make the move into major airline dispatching, how does the possibility/probability that the career could look very different in a few months time influence your thinking about the career as a long term or life long investment?
I am internal with one of the majors that interviewed but wasn't offered a spot as a dispatcher last year. Was hoping to have another shot at it this year but that most likely won't happen. If there were some changes it probably wouldn't change my mind about it as a career. Although I have a voluntary severance offer and a couple of different career ideas, both wouldn't happen right away. And I also think the recovery will be sooner than expected anyway.
 

Green12324

Well-Known Member
Personally I'd rather be temporarily furloughed than take a permanent pay/benefit cut. Any changes would need to be in the form of an LOA with a start and end date. I've got a 30+ year career ahead, these times will pass.

As far as cargo vs passenger airline I think long term the passenger airlines will still be good places to have a career. With that being said, more people will be landing at cargo carriers in the short term and they'll be unlikely to leave. Most people seem to stick with the first major they get hired at whether it's cargo or passengers. The exceptions I know of moved to be closer to home/family.
 
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MT

Well-Known Member
I’m all for taking cuts IF it saves jobs, and IF the LOA has explicit metrics that demand a return to full pay. I’d also need to see a clause guaranteeing no furloughs if concessions were agreed to. You don’t get to cut my pay and let people go.
 

Scarebus

Well-Known Member
I’m all for taking cuts IF it saves jobs, and IF the LOA has explicit metrics that demand a return to full pay. I’d also need to see a clause guaranteeing no furloughs if concessions were agreed to. You don’t get to cut my pay and let people go.
I would be worried that that no furlough clause would just get thrown out in bankruptcy and the concessions would be the starting point for a new contract. If there is another round of lockdowns this fall as the CDC is predicting and the media is starting to egg on then every single passenger airline is going bankrupt. IMO it’s way too risky to give concessions when the probability of bankruptcy is still so high.
 

MT

Well-Known Member
I would be worried that that no furlough clause would just get thrown out in bankruptcy and the concessions would be the starting point for a new contract. If there is another round of lockdowns this fall as the CDC is predicting and the media is starting to egg on then every single passenger airline is going bankrupt. IMO it’s way too risky to give concessions when the probability of bankruptcy is still so high.
Everything goes out the window in bankruptcy. Such a clause would be protection for the junior employees if the company was able to survive bankruptcy.

Knowing the airlines, they want their cake and eat it too. There’s no point in trying to be noble and save the junior guys with a pay cut if the company is still able to furlough them anyway. So one or the other.
 

QXDX

Well-Known Member
What is the goal? Preventing layoffs? Keeping the company viable? The desired outcome drives the strategy.

Instead of concessions on pay rates, how about concessions on hours? Company reduces costs, no one gets furloughed, and work hours can be quickly restored.
 

Avolar

Well-Known Member
Like MT says, if your company goes into bankruptcy, everything goes out the window. All bets are off. We try to do all we can to not get to bankruptcy. Lets stay positive . We won't know until October how things will be. Right now we are all guessing on anything. As employees we prefer the concessions or furloughs. Worst for us employees is the bankruptcy.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
What is the goal? Preventing layoffs? Keeping the company viable? The desired outcome drives the strategy.

Instead of concessions on pay rates, how about concessions on hours? Company reduces costs, no one gets furloughed, and work hours can be quickly restored.
I mean, I'll show up for about 8 days of work, we'll jump back up when people fly again.
 

Troy McClure

Ah say boy...Whattcha got there son?
Curious...What air freight company is the largest in the big wide world? FedEx? UPS?..Hmmm ? You might be surprised.
In fact, most of what folks "say" on this forum regarding aircargo, is WRONG.
If someone says to you,"I am a painter", do you assume they paint houses?....or do they paint portraits?
 

paincorp

Well-Known Member
Curious...What air freight company is the largest in the big wide world? FedEx? UPS?..Hmmm ? You might be surprised.
In fact, most of what folks "say" on this forum regarding aircargo, is WRONG.
If someone says to you,"I am a painter", do you assume they paint houses?....or do they paint portraits?
Most recent data I see, from 2018 says FedEx, Emirates, Qatar and UPS in that order.

Seems domestically, at least, if you want to do cargo, it’s pretty straight forward.

The Asian and Middle East carriers that have their own cargo arm rate pretty high, but that’s to be expected.

Edit: for updated info.
 

69beers

Well-Known Member
Curious...What air freight company is the largest in the big wide world? FedEx? UPS?..Hmmm ? You might be surprised.
In fact, most of what folks "say" on this forum regarding aircargo, is WRONG.
If someone says to you,"I am a painter", do you assume they paint houses?....or do they paint portraits?
Educate us, please.
 

who'swho

Don't hesitate. Penetrate!
Most recent data I see, from 2018 says FedEx, Emirates, Qatar and UPS in that order.

Seems domestically, at least, if you want to do cargo, it’s pretty straight forward.

The Asian and Middle East carriers that have their own cargo arm rate pretty high, but that’s to be expected.

Edit: for updated info.
Atlas is much bigger than anyone realizes when you're talking freight tonnage. When you combine the total numbers for Atlas/Polar/Southern it supposedly puts them just ahead of UPS.
 

paincorp

Well-Known Member
Atlas is much bigger than anyone realizes when you're talking freight tonnage. When you combine the total numbers for Atlas/Polar/Southern it supposedly puts them just ahead of UPS.
You may be right. I don’t have the page up anymore, but I do remember them being listed separate.

Speaking of Atlas, hows that pilot contract coming?
 

Mainline_or_bust

Airplanes fly on PFM, Change my mind
Atlas is much bigger than anyone realizes when you're talking freight tonnage. When you combine the total numbers for Atlas/Polar/Southern it supposedly puts them just ahead of UPS.
Internationally those numbers make sense, include domestic and international it’s not even close.

From the IATA report UPS 4.8 Million tons, Atlas/Polar/Southern (SO assumed as they’re not top 25) 2.5 Million tons.
 
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