Commutair landing incident

CFI A&P

Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Yeah, the more I learn how much on my own I am for half the pay the more burnt out and helpless I start feeling. Sat in the UA jumpseat and watched them coordinate new altitudes and headwinds to make up for a departure delay and it actually worked like magic. Meanwhile... “hey, you didn’t give us an alternate...and we pretty clearly need one.” Or not getting any hold fuel going into LGA with 400 ft OVC. It gets old doing multiple peoples jobs.
That sounds like an average day in 135. "You want to go where? You want to do that today?" Then we start asking ourselves: Is it even legal, do we have the performance and is the destination approved in the GOM, opspecs, which FBO.... International, great. Do we have the paperwork for customs... The most important part is that you don't forget to grab the two lobster catering platters from different vendors (in case one is rubbery).

Going to a new airport and city every trip is fun, but then again ILS 6 circle 1 at TEB gets pretty old.
 
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Autothrust Blue

"I'll take your case."
I flew with a few folks on the MD95 that would get super wound up over the smallest delays. Then I would casually relate what a day in the life of what a regional crew was like and we'd move DEFCON 3 instead of 1.
I'm sorry, can you put that into "dumb civilian" for me? ;)
 

T/O w/FSII

Well-Known Member
That sounds like an average day in 135. "You want to go where? You want to do that today?" Then we start asking ourselves: Is it even legal, do we have the performance and is the destination approved in the GOM, opspecs, which FBO.... International, great. Do we have the paperwork for customs... The most important part is that you don't forget to grab the two lobster catering platters from different vendors (in case one is rubbery).

Going to a new airport and city every trip is fun, but then again ILS 6 circle 1 at TEB gets pretty old.
135 is also known as doing pilot stuff. Just saying
 

GypsyPilot

Well-Known Member
I flew with a few folks on the MD95 that would get super wound up over the smallest delays. Then I would casually relate what a day in the life of what a regional crew was like and we'd move DEFCON 3 instead of 1.
Isn’t that the truth! It’s absolutely amazing what some of the CAs I fly with get wound up about... Things that were an absolutely trivial, daily experience as an RJ CA will send some of these dudes into a head spinning tirade.

I’ve used the same strategy as you a few times, and it does seem to work. Or I’ll just say something like “Geeze CA, do you have a hot date tonight or something?”. Unfortunately it’s usually just temporary, and then another small thing happens and they flip out again. Oh well. Some people like to make things harder than necessary.
 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
Unrelated, but I was on UA4923 YQB-EWR on 2/15 operated by Commutair - had a truly great FA working that flight. I'm UA 1K and have yet to have a mainline FA that was that appreciative of my business. I only wish I had taken down his name to send something along.
Similar. Recently had Commutair gate staff (it was for a Commutair flight, not sure if the ground personnel were Commutair) go way out of their way to make my life easier when they really didn't have to. Gave 'em a $50 tip so they could grab some beers together, and made sure to notify their supervisor in their presence.
 

Richman

Well-Known Member
I flew with a few folks on the MD95 that would get super wound up over the smallest delays. Then I would casually relate what a day in the life of what a regional crew was like and we'd move DEFCON 3 instead of 1.
Zero reason why this should ever happen.

Was flying with one cat who was wound uber tight, trying to do everyone’s job for them.

Then he starts to harsh MY mellow, and, well, I do not hold to that. I look at him and say, in my best early 80’s Jeff Spicoli “dude...is the jet on fire?!? No? Well then CTFO man, it’ll happen when it happens”

Sheesh. People make this job way harder than it needs to be. Swearsies.
 

NovemberEcho

Dergs favorite member
Sheesh. People make this job way harder than it needs to be. Swearsies.
As I’m sure you’re already aware, we got guys like that too. We call the one in my sector Angry Dave. Everything will be going nice and smooth and then he plugs in and within a couple minutes is yelling at pilots for the most trivial stuff. An AAL pilot actually called the desk about him the other day. It was quite hilarious. He said “I wouldn’t normally call, but I distinctly remember this guys voice and he told me to go screw myself on frequency about 6 months ago.” Now granted, he’s an AAL pilot so it was probably deserved, but still ain’t nobody got time for that.
 

Cherokee_Cruiser

Well-Known Member
I flew with guys who would flip a lid over the dumbest and smallest issue. No point in getting your BP high over something you can't control.
 

bike21

9-5 Ruins Lives
As I’m sure you’re already aware, we got guys like that too. We call the one in my sector Angry Dave. Everything will be going nice and smooth and then he plugs in and within a couple minutes is yelling at pilots for the most trivial stuff. An AAL pilot actually called the desk about him the other day. It was quite hilarious. He said “I wouldn’t normally call, but I distinctly remember this guys voice and he told me to go screw myself on frequency about 6 months ago.” Now granted, he’s an AAL pilot so it was probably deserved, but still ain’t nobody got time for that.
Ya know, we had an Angry Dave at my old flight school. One did not talk to or look Angry Dave directly in eye until at least the 5th cup of coffee or 2 hours post sunrise whatever came first.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
As I’m sure you’re already aware, we got guys like that too. We call the one in my sector Angry Dave. Everything will be going nice and smooth and then he plugs in and within a couple minutes is yelling at pilots for the most trivial stuff. An AAL pilot actually called the desk about him the other day. It was quite hilarious. He said “I wouldn’t normally call, but I distinctly remember this guys voice and he told me to go screw myself on frequency about 6 months ago.” Now granted, he’s an AAL pilot so it was probably deserved, but still ain’t nobody got time for that.
Are his initials AD? Hey, AD, it's time for your break. "What"?
 

Prino

Well-Known Member
As I’m sure you’re already aware, we got guys like that too. We call the one in my sector Angry Dave. Everything will be going nice and smooth and then he plugs in and within a couple minutes is yelling at pilots for the most trivial stuff. An AAL pilot actually called the desk about him the other day. It was quite hilarious. He said “I wouldn’t normally call, but I distinctly remember this guys voice and he told me to go screw myself on frequency about 6 months ago.” Now granted, he’s an AAL pilot so it was probably deserved, but still ain’t nobody got time for that.
I thought every facility has one?
 

JDean3204

Well-Known Member
I can honestly count on one hand how many times I’ve had to land in a white out environment, it sucks. Seeing the edge lighting and the threshold is all ya got, and with 1/2 mile vis it’s right there requiring a very quick decision whether or not that’s adequate for 91.whatever in order to land. I’ve always said lights, paint, pavement but with a blanket of snow the pavement isn’t there. Then trying to find the runway and land on centerline while using periferal vision to stay on centerline. Not my favorite thing to do that’s for sure.

This incident makes me wonder what did the crew see when they were at mins and decided to continue, in the moment your brain is just hoping to find the right cues and visual resources because you just want to get the plane safely on the ground. I won’t sit back and call these pilots out, because that’s not a good thing to do as a professional in my opinion. But it will be good to hear/see what the crew was thinking in those moments they decided to continue the landing.
 

Beefy McGee

Well-Known Member
I can honestly count on one hand how many times I’ve had to land in a white out environment, it sucks. Seeing the edge lighting and the threshold is all ya got, and with 1/2 mile vis it’s right there requiring a very quick decision whether or not that’s adequate for 91.whatever in order to land. I’ve always said lights, paint, pavement but with a blanket of snow the pavement isn’t there. Then trying to find the runway and land on centerline while using periferal vision to stay on centerline. Not my favorite thing to do that’s for sure.

This incident makes me wonder what did the crew see when they were at mins and decided to continue, in the moment your brain is just hoping to find the right cues and visual resources because you just want to get the plane safely on the ground. I won’t sit back and call these pilots out, because that’s not a good thing to do as a professional in my opinion. But it will be good to hear/see what the crew was thinking in those moments they decided to continue the landing.
I’m in agreement with just about all you said there. But I am wondering how they got that far off the localizer if they popped out that low, assuming they tracked it and it was working at the time. They should have been more or less in line with the pavement as they flew over / towards lights. Winds were light I believe (been a while since I looked at the METARs posted above). So how did they wind up so far to the side?
 

tcco94

Professional GTA V Pilot
Yeah, the more I learn how much on my own I am for half the pay the more burnt out and helpless I start feeling. Sat in the UA jumpseat and watched them coordinate new altitudes and headwinds to make up for a departure delay and it actually worked like magic. Meanwhile... “hey, you didn’t give us an alternate...and we pretty clearly need one.” Or not getting any hold fuel going into LGA with 400 ft OVC. It gets old doing multiple peoples jobs.
First day off IOE, leg 1 delayed 3 hours for high mins (5 leg ATL day). Leg 2 no joke had a conversation with dispatch that our destination weather is decreasing very quickly and the ILS is OTS (so I have to land tailwind ILS because high mins can't do a GPS) on a 6000 foot contaminated runway...

No joke she keeps telling me "it's certainly not good and it's getting worse but you're legal". I heard "you're legal" 3 times on the phone. I was happy one of my LCA talked to me about the pressure of people saying "you're legal". It certainly seemed easier to say no when you play roles in your head. The first 100 hours Captain curse has hit me hard... Maybe that's my fault for flying as an FO in good west coast weather...
 
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