CommutAir Furlough (Edit: Mesa is now as well.)

mwflyer

Well-Known Member
UA came to C5 and said "If you don't get us some workable plan in short order, you're all done." At least that's what someone said who was in the room. I'm fairly certain C5 doesn't have to pockets to do that or they would, this is actually a decent place with some shotty problems before all this happened.

And this is only for April. May will be decided in a few weeks. It could get worse and I believe it will. These agreements only staunch the bloodletting for now.
UA said what? UA told C5 to come up with a plan immediately after United reduced their flying, or United would pull the contract? I seriously doubt that.

If C5 wants to run fat on pilots, that’s C5’s issue, not United’s.
 

milleR

Well-Known Member
UA said what? UA told C5 to come up with a plan immediately after United reduced their flying, or United would pull the contract? I seriously doubt that.

If C5 wants to run fat on pilots, that’s C5’s issue, not United’s.
I have absolutely no idea of the inner workings here, but watching from the nosebleeds it's pretty hard not to imagine that owning a large stake in the company gives UA a different perspective on C5's inner workings
 

Max Power

Well-Known Member
UA said what? UA told C5 to come up with a plan immediately after United reduced their flying, or United would pull the contract? I seriously doubt that.

If C5 wants to run fat on pilots, that’s C5’s issue, not United’s.
Why would you doubt that? They hold 40% of C5 and a certain amount of XJT(?). We are not in an optimal position in this compared to XJT, whom they could likely shift flying to. And that 40% stake as well as the money put into C5 is nothing compared to the billions they're losing and going to lose over this.
 

Kingairer

'Tiger Team' Member
It’s the healthcare cost that I would fear most if furloughed. I would want to do everything possible to help people stay employed if for nothing else, healthcare.
 

Seggy

Well-Known Member
Come on, you know how this works. The only thing National can do to stop local actions is for Joe to refuse to sign a CBA/LOA. If the LOA was rejected at the MEC level, there’s nothing to be not signed, so nothing National can do. This is the problem with the autonomous MEC system, but control freak pilots will never allow National to have more power.

That said, I take no position on the proposal. Don’t have the facts that the MEC did to make their decision.
I know, it is wrong though. ALPA bitches and moans why folks are pissed at them, don't have new volunteers, etc. It is because of crap like this.

The Executive Council needs to step in and put the MEC under receivership if they agreed to something like this make it null and void and go back to the company asking for 55 hour lines IMHO.
 
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SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
I know, it is wrong though. ALPA bitches and moans why folks are pissed at them, don't have new volunteers, etc. It is because of crap like this.

The Executive Council needs to step in and put the MEC under receivership if they agreed to something like this make it null and void and go back to the company asking for 55 hour lines IMHO.
There isn’t a chance in hell that either you or I would have voted in favor of trusteeship in a case like this when we were on the Council. Because Article XIX simply doesn’t allow for it. Be mad if you’d like. But it ain’t National you should be mad at.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
Okay, tough guy. Make your case. What part of Article XIX would allow National to take action here:

The President of the Association, with the concurrent approval of the Executive Council and Executive Board, as applicable, is authorized to take corrective action against an airline Master Executive Council or Local Executive Council, or any officer(s) or representative(s) thereof, if any such Council, officer(s) or other representative(s), in the judgment of the President of the Association and the Executive Council and Executive Board, as applicable, violates or fails to comply with any of the provisions of the Constitution and By-Laws of the Association or policies, engages in financial malpractice or corruption (including embezzlement or misappropriation of funds), or exposes the Association to detrimental consequences by engaging in a substantial failure to perform significant legal or representational duties of a bargaining representative.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
Okay, tough guy. Make your case. What part of Article XIX would allow National to take action here:

The President of the Association, with the concurrent approval of the Executive Council and Executive Board, as applicable, is authorized to take corrective action against an airline Master Executive Council or Local Executive Council, or any officer(s) or representative(s) thereof, if any such Council, officer(s) or other representative(s), in the judgment of the President of the Association and the Executive Council and Executive Board, as applicable, violates or fails to comply with any of the provisions of the Constitution and By-Laws of the Association or policies, engages in financial malpractice or corruption (including embezzlement or misappropriation of funds), or exposes the Association to detrimental consequences by engaging in a substantial failure to perform significant legal or representational duties of a bargaining representative.
Seriously? It's right there in black and white.
 

bimmerphile

SuperCritical™ Member
Wonder if they furloughed any of those non seniority list sim instructors...
was always fun running those names thru the scab list.
 

Seggy

Well-Known Member
Okay, tough guy. Make your case. What part of Article XIX would allow National to take action here:

The President of the Association, with the concurrent approval of the Executive Council and Executive Board, as applicable, is authorized to take corrective action against an airline Master Executive Council or Local Executive Council, or any officer(s) or representative(s) thereof, if any such Council, officer(s) or other representative(s), in the judgment of the President of the Association and the Executive Council and Executive Board, as applicable, violates or fails to comply with any of the provisions of the Constitution and By-Laws of the Association or policies, engages in financial malpractice or corruption (including embezzlement or misappropriation of funds), or exposes the Association to detrimental consequences by engaging in a substantial failure to perform significant legal or representational duties of a bargaining representative.
As @jtrain609 said. This opens up the Association to a lawsuit. Your beloved GOP Appointed Judges would have a field day with this one.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
Seriously? It's right there in black and white.
1. There are no connected detrimental consequences;

2. There was no failure to perform significant legal or representational duties;

3. The DFR standard is a “wide range of reasonableness.”

I can see why you never took the bar.
 

Seggy

Well-Known Member
1. There are no connected detrimental consequences;

2. There was no failure to perform significant legal or representational duties;

3. The DFR standard is a “wide range of reasonableness.”

I can see why you never took the bar.
Everyone take a 55 hour line or there will be furloughs and it would be reasonable to keep everyone employed rather than have furloughs.
 

SlumTodd_Millionaire

Evil Landlord Capitalist
It would be reasonable to keep everyone employed rather than have furloughs.
It would also be reasonable to determine otherwise. The DFR standard gives reps extremely wide latitude to determine what is in the best interests of the overall membership.

You know this stuff. You just want to act tough for the audience.
 

jtrain609

Uniting the black vote.
Everyone take a 55 hour line or there will be furloughs and it would be reasonable to keep everyone employed rather than have furloughs.
This 100%. If the economy really gets out of control, nobody will be able to find a job. We should have learned this from 2008.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
It would also be reasonable to determine otherwise. The DFR standard gives reps extremely wide latitude to determine what is in the best interests of the overall membership.

You know this stuff. You just want to act tough for the audience.
Seniority ain't what it once was.

The standard of care taken against a potential DFR is much higher than it was 5 years ago, let alone 10 years ago, and the likelihood of action take by a member who perceives harm is also much higher.
 

Yakob

Grand Prognosticator Nominee
Everyone take a 55 hour line or there will be furloughs and it would be reasonable to keep everyone employed rather than have furloughs.
Supposedly there would still have been furloughs, perhaps just as many, even if everyone took the 55-hour line. I don't know for sure as I haven't seen the information the MEC had.

This 100%. If the economy really gets out of control, nobody will be able to find a job. We should have learned this from 2008.
It seems like everyone still naively thinks this will be over in a few months and we'll be back to normal soon. It looks like the economy is entering a full-blown depression and I don't see demand for air travel ever returning to 2019 levels, at least not in my lifetime. As I've said before I don't see C5 surviving much longer if I turn out to be right about this.
 

Yakob

Grand Prognosticator Nominee
Wonder if they furloughed any of those non seniority list sim instructors...
was always fun running those names thru the scab list.
Did we have more than one scab? I know we apparently had one who kept falling asleep in systems and got something like 50% on the systems test. I heard he was fired before he got through training.
 

bimmerphile

SuperCritical™ Member
Did we have more than one scab? I know we apparently had one who kept falling asleep in systems and got something like 50% on the systems test. I heard he was fired before he got through training.
There were several CAL at various points in time. I have no idea who is left
 
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