COD crashed enroute to Carrier

///AMG

Well-Known Member
#42
Will legacy Hornets be PLM capable?
Not fully. There are two modes of PLM, first and most basic being called "Rate" and the second called "Path". Legacy got rate, but not path. Rate just basically sets a specific descent rate (as the name would imply) and doesn't take into account the ship's movement. Path does take into account ship's speed, and projects where you need to fly to arrive on the target wire. Without an exceedingly in depth discussion of the symbology you see in the HUD, I will say that rate is a bit more manual, and path is the ultimate version of the system. It uses flight control deflections to kill lift (or generate lift), and the engines basically stay stagnant at 82% ish throughout.......so unlike all of carrier jet aviation history, where you affected glideslope position with the left hand/throttle, now the throttle is taken out of the mix and it is entirely FBW control inputs. It's much more violent to fly, as your up/down corrections are almost immediately realized via direct lift. Pretty cool stuff. In the past, there was a lot of skill/technique involved with adding/reducing power, and the latency that was involved in the G/S correction (i.e. when to make another correction to "catch" the original correction). Now you just literally pull back or push forward until you see the ball where you want it, and then let go. "Magic" is not an understatement. Unfortunately legacy isn't getting the full meal deal, and anyone other than F/A-18 (or E/A-18G) and F-35 is probably never getting it.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
#43
Not fully. There are two modes of PLM, first and most basic being called "Rate" and the second called "Path". Legacy got rate, but not path. Rate just basically sets a specific descent rate (as the name would imply) and doesn't take into account the ship's movement. Path does take into account ship's speed, and projects where you need to fly to arrive on the target wire. Without an exceedingly in depth discussion of the symbology you see in the HUD, I will say that rate is a bit more manual, and path is the ultimate version of the system. It uses flight control deflections to kill lift (or generate lift), and the engines basically stay stagnant at 82% ish throughout.......so unlike all of carrier jet aviation history, where you affected glideslope position with the left hand/throttle, now the throttle is taken out of the mix and it is entirely FBW control inputs. It's much more violent to fly, as your up/down corrections are almost immediately realized via direct lift. Pretty cool stuff. In the past, there was a lot of skill/technique involved with adding/reducing power, and the latency that was involved in the G/S correction (i.e. when to make another correction to "catch" the original correction). Now you just literally pull back or push forward until you see the ball where you want it, and then let go. "Magic" is not an understatement. Unfortunately legacy isn't getting the full meal deal, and anyone other than F/A-18 (or E/A-18G) and F-35 is probably never getting it.
Lockheed still using DLC.
 
#44
This begs the questions are pilots going to become dependent on PLM? Will they still practice old school approaches if for some reason PLM isn't available?

Another questions, I believe I read somewhere the Hornet has the ability to "autoland" on the carrier?
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
#45
This begs the questions are pilots going to become dependent on PLM? Will they still practice old school approaches if for some reason PLM isn't available?

Another questions, I believe I read somewhere the Hornet has the ability to "autoland" on the carrier?
I'm not sure what the future holds. The engineers tell us that when PLM is fully implemented, it will be able to account for engine failure and other degraded modes.....their line is that if there is something bad enough where you can't use it, the jet is already probably going to crash anyway. No idea how true that is, and I think we all know claims like that in the past in aerospace have been found to be false at times. Right now, there is still a requirement for manual approach currency, but it is pretty minimal.

Hornet and Super Hornet both have the ability to fly a "coupled" approach using the traditional autopilot, auto throttles. It uses a datalink of sorts with the carrier, where they actually "lock" your aircraft, and then the system sends commands to the aircraft. You can use it uncoupled as simply another instrument reference and fly a manual pass, or you can "couple", and depending on if you requested a mode 1 or a mode 1A, you either click out of it and fly manually for the last couple hundred feet (i.e. DH), or you let it fly you into the wires. I've personally never used it, nor wanted to, though I know many who have. There are some definite limitations to the system (pitching deck, datalink failure or drop lock), so PLM is great because it is entirely self contained. Path still doesn't account properly for excessive deck movement, but rate will accomplish something similar to how one would already fly such an approach.
 
#46
I'm not sure what the future holds. The engineers tell us that when PLM is fully implemented, it will be able to account for engine failure and other degraded modes.....their line is that if there is something bad enough where you can't use it, the jet is already probably going to crash anyway. No idea how true that is, and I think we all know claims like that in the past in aerospace have been found to be false at times. Right now, there is still a requirement for manual approach currency, but it is pretty minimal.

Hornet and Super Hornet both have the ability to fly a "coupled" approach using the traditional autopilot, auto throttles. It uses a datalink of sorts with the carrier, where they actually "lock" your aircraft, and then the system sends commands to the aircraft. You can use it uncoupled as simply another instrument reference and fly a manual pass, or you can "couple", and depending on if you requested a mode 1 or a mode 1A, you either click out of it and fly manually for the last couple hundred feet (i.e. DH), or you let it fly you into the wires. I've personally never used it, nor wanted to, though I know many who have. There are some definite limitations to the system (pitching deck, datalink failure or drop lock), so PLM is great because it is entirely self contained. Path still doesn't account properly for excessive deck movement, but rate will accomplish something similar to how one would already fly such an approach.
very interesting...thanks for the info....
 

///AMG

Well-Known Member
#47
Lockheed still using DLC.
Yeah, the Tomcat also used DLC. In the Legacy, a lot of guys, myself included, liked to use "Hornet DLC" during manual passes......ie keep the throttles where they are, and waggle those skinny little baby wings enough and you will kill lift enough to make a downward glide slope correction while keeping the motors spooled (to catch it). Not actually DLC, though the Tomcat and Hoover both had a real version (think the Vigi of a previous generation might have as well).
 

Lawman

Well-Known Member
#48
Yeah, the Tomcat also used DLC. In the Legacy, a lot of guys, myself included, liked to use "Hornet DLC" during manual passes......ie keep the throttles where they are, and waggle those skinny little baby wings enough and you will kill lift enough to make a downward glide slope correction while keeping the motors spooled (to catch it). Not actually DLC, though the Tomcat and Hoover both had a real version (think the Vigi of a previous generation might have as well).
Curious, what kind of reaction time delay would you get out of the 404/414s.

I imagine the electronic brain of it all would chose engine life and longevity to keep it from overspooling at an excessive rate.
 

Pilot Fighter

Well-Known Member
#49
Yeah, the Tomcat also used DLC. In the Legacy, a lot of guys, myself included, liked to use "Hornet DLC" during manual passes......ie keep the throttles where they are, and waggle those skinny little baby wings enough and you will kill lift enough to make a downward glide slope correction while keeping the motors spooled (to catch it). Not actually DLC, though the Tomcat and Hoover both had a real version (think the Vigi of a previous generation might have as well).
The S-3 could do 1A approaches but they were prohibited.
 
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