Club Furlough

Jumpinthedog

Active Member
I can count more than a few cases in my very limited experience with this industry where a ramp/customer service agent, crew scheduler etc. had a straight forward path to a major NOC, simply because they could manage to attend dispatch school. Disagree with me all you want but I do not see how being an employee in any capacity with a major makes you a better dispatch candidate by default...
This is my current position in a major trying to get a straightforward path. I think the part your missing is the performance reviews, familiarity with the company's operation and lack of bad habits. They can see years of work performance by their own standards and references that they probably know or have worked with. The employees often times work directly with dispatch, pilots, fms, releases etc. So they know the company's operation very well and know the effects of each action dispatch takes. The bad habits part is what i hear the most when i've job shadowed, apparently they have a lot of trouble unteaching habits regional hires picked up and with straight forward employees they can mold them the way they want as well as train potential hires their way while they're still working in their front line positions. In my experience most of us that are going for dispatch (at least the ones that have a chance) have aviation degrees, dispatch certification, job shadow their company's dispatch center often and have been working towards dispatch since day one. I've seen a lot of career ramp and customer service agents get dispatch certs but none of them have ever gotten a position. Plus i think the majors are pretty good at figuring out if a candidate has a good level of knowledge or not. It is a gamble for us too, we are working long hours, nights, weekends holidays and mandatory overtime but the company's seem to like hiring internally and tell us as much. Unfortunately for me it seems like i'll have wasted a few years of work because October is probably going to be ugly.
 

paincorp

Well-Known Member
I would hope people going for dispatch have their dispatch certificate...

That being said, coming from a regional doesn’t mean you have bad habits, and I’ve talked to more than a few dispatchers at places that hire almost exclusively internal that they’re sick and tired of doing basic indoc every class. I’ve also seen more than a few people hired with glowing reviews from other departments end up being useless idiots once they get to training, so it goes both ways.

I think we all understand that being at a company means the hiring manager will be able to see your employment record with that company, but I’m also not expecting them to hire a ticket agent for dispatch over a qualified dispatcher that has experience. This is a safety sensitive position after all, and if we sacrifice on that belief, its a stepping stone to why companies should pay us less, and respect us less.
 
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Jumpinthedog

Active Member
That being said, coming from a regional doesn’t mean you have bad habits... but I’m also not expecting them to hire a ticket agent for dispatch over a qualified dispatcher that has experience. This is a safety sensitive position after all
Well obviously, thats why they still hire from regionals but its a justification i have heard from the majors for direct internal hiring. As for safety the license you have is supposed to prove you can dispatch a flight safely, so that, passing the airlines tests and going through their training program should be sufficient on safety. Everyone applying is going to be a qualified dispatcher, those internal applicants also have relevant experience, hell im pretty sure southwest's ticket agents also have a flight planning role like most operations departments. If anything comments like that show why internal applicants may be more favorable, you will have to communicate with those people directly and not knowing their duties or level of knowledge may lead to some issues, besides any major training and probationary program should be competent enough to make a well testing applicant into a decent dispatcher with or without experience. If anything it makes sense to have your hiring classes a mix of company and external experience so your trainees can learn from each other as they learn the position.
 
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paincorp

Well-Known Member
A license says you know the regs. Common sense and experience makes you safe. 121.619 says I can dispatch into +TSRA with no alternate, but that doesn’t make it safe or a good idea.

You’re also assuming those coming from regionals haven’t worked as a ramper or ticket agent. I have many co-workers who have worked in other capacities, myself included.

And no, ticket agents don’t do planning. Having been one, they issue tickets, assign seats, and scan people on. That isn’t planning. They aren’t figuring out how a route will be affected by weather, or where to divert if things go bad.
 

Luigi

Well-Known Member
This is my current position in a major trying to get a straightforward path. I think the part your missing is the performance reviews, familiarity with the company's operation and lack of bad habits. They can see years of work performance by their own standards and references that they probably know or have worked with. The employees often times work directly with dispatch, pilots, fms, releases etc. So they know the company's operation very well and know the effects of each action dispatch takes. The bad habits part is what i hear the most when i've job shadowed, apparently they have a lot of trouble unteaching habits regional hires picked up and with straight forward employees they can mold them the way they want as well as train potential hires their way while they're still working in their front line positions. In my experience most of us that are going for dispatch (at least the ones that have a chance) have aviation degrees, dispatch certification, job shadow their company's dispatch center often and have been working towards dispatch since day one. I've seen a lot of career ramp and customer service agents get dispatch certs but none of them have ever gotten a position. Plus i think the majors are pretty good at figuring out if a candidate has a good level of knowledge or not. It is a gamble for us too, we are working long hours, nights, weekends holidays and mandatory overtime but the company's seem to like hiring internally and tell us as much. Unfortunately for me it seems like i'll have wasted a few years of work because October is probably going to be ugly.
So in your experience regional dispatchers have bad habits? I just wanted to make sure I got that right...

Can you list your experience for me again because clearly I missed a section on dispatch training. Also I’d love your opinion on the difference between a good dispatcher and a bad dispatcher.
 

CF34-3B1

Well-Known Member
im pretty sure southwest's ticket agents also have a flight planning role like most operations departments.
Nah, you’re probably thinking of the position referred to as “ops agents.”

They send final weight and balance numbers to the crew along with checking people in and looking at bag counts and other stuff like that. BUT, more and more it seems like lately, a lot of them don’t even know what the numbers truly mean. Ex. “hey uh I’m over the MZFW on this flight so I was wondering if you are ok with less fuel?” :ooh: ***I am not saying anything demeaning about them, just that I don’t count that as “flight planning,” and I find more and more I have to explain that it doesn’t matter if we have any gas at all it won’t solve their MZFW issue*** AND not all of them have trouble understanding what the numbers mean.

They have their job and contribute to the operation. But I think you’re stretching it with the “also have a flight planning role” argument.

There are pros and cons to both sides...internal and external. Which is why *in my opinion* it’s a good idea to have a mix of both.
 

IADspotter

Well-Known Member
I knew I was stepping on some toes when I made that remark about majors' preference for internals. I know a straight forward path does not necessarily mean it is easier. If you have your eyes set on a dispatch role, it cannot be easy to work the ramp or at a customer service desk. But some of the justifications, I find a little less than convincing. Known quantity for instance. Those same airlines hire pilots from regionals and other outside sources, who are actually up on the planes. I would assume they are just as if not more likely to affect safety. It just goes back to demand in my opinion. The demand for pilots exceeds supply (at least it did before COVID) so they will hire from anywhere and train. With dispatch they can afford to be selective. I have some experience with academia. And a lot of major public universities in the U.S. (maybe most) do not hire their own graduates as academics in their own classrooms. This is to avoid giving the impression of favoritism I would imagine...
 

Jumpinthedog

Active Member
So in your experience regional dispatchers have bad habits? I just wanted to make sure I got that right...
My experience is that dispatchers in the majors used it as justification for hiring internally.
Nah, you’re probably thinking of the position referred to as “ops agents.”

They send final weight and balance numbers to the crew along with checking people in and looking at bag counts and other stuff like that. BUT, more and more it seems like lately, a lot of them don’t even know what the numbers truly mean. Ex. “hey uh I’m over the MZFW on this flight so I was wondering if you are ok with less fuel?” :ooh: ***I am not saying anything demeaning about them, just that I don’t count that as “flight planning,” and I find more and more I have to explain that it doesn’t matter if we have any gas at all it won’t solve their MZFW issue*** AND not all of them have trouble understanding what the numbers mean.

They have their job and contribute to the operation. But I think you’re stretching it with the “also have a flight planning role” argument.

There are pros and cons to both sides...internal and external. Which is why *in my opinion* it’s a good idea to have a mix of both.
That makes sense, most aren't going to know much but someone going for dispatch in that role has access to everything and will be in contact with dispatch. The pros an cons to each side is the part I'm arguing in the first place, the only reason I am going the internal route is because my company dispatch center told me to stay. Although it seems like the conversation just makes people defensive but internal applicants are definitely considered by the airlines.
 

paincorp

Well-Known Member
Do I know people who have their certificate who are in SOC/NOC/OCCs? Yes, quite a few. Would I recommend any of them for actually doing dispatch? Only one of them.

I’ve seen brilliant people crash and burn doing jobs I’ve done in the past. Skill set in one role doesn’t determine success in another. There’s very valid safety reasons for hiring dispatchers with experience. There’s very little safety reasons for hiring internal.
 

Luigi

Well-Known Member
My experience is that dispatchers in the majors used it as justification for hiring internally.
So it would be fair (and truthful) to say: you have 0 experience in dispatch hiring or training? Would you also say: you have zilch, nada, and zero experience in determining a good dispatcher from a bad dispatcher?

Since it seems like the answer to my questions is “yes”. Then I suggest it is unfair of you to even repeat in passing that a regional dispatcher is somehow inferior to a mainline internal. I find your suggestion ridiculous; especially coming from someone who has never dispatched, and clearly lacks a subjective criteria for judging such matters.

If you want to be a dispatcher; be a dispatcher. If you want to be a crew scheduler; be a crew scheduler.
 

Flagship_dxer

Legacy Airline Dispatcher
I like how this thread went from “hey, a bunch of us lost our jobs when our employer didn’t follow the CARES Act” to “screw you, internals with no experience make better dispatchers, you have bad habits.”
Was just gonna say the same thing.

Major passenger carriers might not hire again for a decade. A lot changes in a decade so by the time majors hire again, I wouldn't be surprised if hiring practices also were different. Many of the current managers might either be promoted, retired or laid off by the time passenger majors hire again.
 

Jumpinthedog

Active Member
Then I suggest it is unfair of you to even repeat in passing that a regional dispatcher is somehow inferior to a mainline internal.
Luckily I never said that, i did however give reasons as to why companies sometimes hire internally. There is no reason to get so defensive.
 

Jumpinthedog

Active Member
When you claim you’re more qualified, which is what you were doing, than people who actually do the job, yes, yes there is.
I'm claiming that and internal applicant can be just as hireable as one with external experience because the initial comment I replied to was arguing otherwise. If that wasn't the case you would never see internal hires in the majors. I listed one con that my company's dispatchers used when they told me to just stay internal instead of going to the regionals, one con is not saying that people with experience are inferior. Obviously this was the wrong thread to even bring this up and i should have just let the guy rant but when i replied I didn't realize i was in the furlough thread. I'm done arguing.
 
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ATLiens

Well-Known Member
The truth is hiring is all a crapshoot. A hiring manager at a major doesn’t know A crew scheduler/ramper/etc just like he doesn’t know any of the regional dispatchers. So they go by recommendations and a recommendation is only as good as the person who gives it.
 

flynryan692

Well-Known Member
It shows Republic agreed to CARES Act money on 5/12, yet they furloughed 1/3 of their Dispatchers around 4/28 which is within a week of many of their competitors and partners accepting money. How scummy. I've heard through the grapevine they're trying to play hardball with partner carrier minimum guarantees too and it's not going to be a pretty end result if they keep it up. They deserve it (the company, not the employees), now is not the the time to be biting the hand that literally feeds you.
 

A1TAPE

Well-Known Member
It shows Republic agreed to CARES Act money on 5/12, yet they furloughed 1/3 of their Dispatchers around 4/28 which is within a week of many of their competitors and partners accepting money. How scummy. I've heard through the grapevine they're trying to play hardball with partner carrier minimum guarantees too and it's not going to be a pretty end result if they keep it up. They deserve it (the company, not the employees), now is not the the time to be biting the hand that literally feeds you.
What would the chances be of the airlines dropping RPA as a partner then if they refuse to play ball?
 
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