Club Furlough

Dart_8992

Well-Known Member
As much as I truly hope something like this passes congress, as I know it will help a lot of people. How long do we realistically believe we can delay the inevitable? The passengers won't be back on March 31st either.
 

Flagship_dxer

Legacy Airline Dispatcher
Numerous airline employees at all airlines have taken LOAs of varying lengths and retirement packages. Airlines like Southwest, Alaska, and Delta (excluding DL pilots and dispatch) have largely avoided layoffs for most if not all their workgroups for the rest of the year through LOAs, hour cuts, and other measures. All major and LCCs have enough cash to survive for at least another year. Many non union workers at AA have already been laid off. This would essentially be a bailout for union groups only at maybe 2 or 3 of the airlines. The airlines that dont need the bailout money would be forced to take it or be at a competitive disadvantage to those that did.

If this bailout passes, it should come with a condition that specifies re-hiring the non union workers who took layoffs packages. They took those packages before a second bailout was even being discussed or a possibility.
 

who'swho

Don't hesitate. Penetrate!
That's a whole lotta money for not a whole lotta jobs when you do the math. Last time it was to save the entire airline industry. Just saying.
 

paincorp

Well-Known Member
Not sure how an extension could be justified after so many airlines cut pay with some even laying off employees after taking the money.
I was curious about this myself. American has already shown 30% of management and support staff the door. Would they have to change their severance pay to stay compliant, or would more of what Republic and Gate Gourmet did be ok?
 

KiloEchoVictor

Well-Known Member
Not sure how an extension could be justified after so many airlines cut pay with some even laying off employees after taking the money.
Exactly. It's not like any amount of bailout money is going to stop the execs from using this as an opportunity to downsize. They would have to practically nationalize the industry to save people's jobs or get them recalled. The situation is so much worse than any of us were being told a few months ago.
 

DispatcherSam

Well-Known Member
Exactly. It's not like any amount of bailout money is going to stop the execs from using this as an opportunity to downsize. They would have to practically nationalize the industry to save people's jobs or get them recalled. The situation is so much worse than any of us were being told a few months ago.
Nobody could have foreseen this level of chaos, and nobody knows when it will rebound, if it even does.
 

Wonderlic

Well-Known Member
Nobody could have foreseen this level of chaos, and nobody knows when it will rebound, if it even does.
Im pretty worried at this point about it never rebounding. It sounded crazy a few months ago but I think the fundamentals of society have changed forever. There is now a push for wearing goggles in public and Fauci recently suggested that face masks and goggles should be worn to protect against the seasonal flu as well. Fear and panic over infectious diseases of any kind are most likely the new normal for human beings which is exactly what I was afraid of.
 

who'swho

Don't hesitate. Penetrate!
Im pretty worried at this point about it never rebounding. It sounded crazy a few months ago but I think the fundamentals of society have changed forever. There is now a push for wearing goggles in public and Fauci recently suggested that face masks and goggles should be worn to protect against the seasonal flu as well. Fear and panic over infectious diseases of any kind are most likely the new normal for human beings which is exactly what I was afraid of.
Once upon a time there was another pandemic in this country. People wore masks then as well. This too shall pass. History repeats itself again and again and again....
 

who'swho

Don't hesitate. Penetrate!
There wasn’t social media and 24/7 tabloid style media fueling panic back then. I think that is going to be the difference this time around.
History wins every time. If the black death didn't wipe out western civilization then neither will corona. Provided we all do our part.
 

Dx81

Well-Known Member
History wins every time. If the black death didn't wipe out western civilization then neither will corona. Provided we all do our part.
The Black Death didn't have mass transportation to spread across the world. Imagine the Spanish Flu in today's world. People already aren't doing their part. You think they will magically start now?

Sent from my SM-G988U1 using Tapatalk
 

Dart_8992

Well-Known Member
Im pretty worried at this point about it never rebounding. It sounded crazy a few months ago but I think the fundamentals of society have changed forever. There is now a push for wearing goggles in public and Fauci recently suggested that face masks and goggles should be worn to protect against the seasonal flu as well. Fear and panic over infectious diseases of any kind are most likely the new normal for human beings which is exactly what I was afraid of.
I think there is cause to worry, but I think you're focusing on the wrong reasons.

The virus will be solved in time. We will either get a vaccine or herd immunity sooner or later. Once we achieve that, the flying will slowly return. The thing that most worries me isn't the virus scaring people, its businesses realizing they don't need to do all of this business travel anymore. They are learning during this pandemic that they can continue business as usual without flying people across the country and the world. Those business meetings they used to do in person, are now being done in the comfort of their homes via teleconference . This is what would worry me. Business travel makes up a very significant portion of the passenger demand and from what I can tell, a lot of that isn't coming back.

Take a look at the real estate market right now. Prices are soaring in suburban america because so many people have been told that they will never have to return to the office, so they are leaving the cities and buying homes in the suburbs. Commercial establishments all over the country are going to let their leases lapse and continue from this point on with their workforce's working from home. I fear the business travel will follow this trend.
 

who'swho

Don't hesitate. Penetrate!
The Black Death didn't have mass transportation to spread across the world. Imagine the Spanish Flu in today's world. People already aren't doing their part. You think they will magically start now?

Sent from my SM-G988U1 using Tapatalk
Imagine the Spanish Flu during a World War when millions of troops were being transported globally. Oh, that's right... that already happened. Wash your hands, wear masks, and avoid gatherings if you want to keep your job.
 

CF34-3B1

Well-Known Member
I think there is cause to worry, but I think you're focusing on the wrong reasons.

The virus will be solved in time. We will either get a vaccine or herd immunity sooner or later. Once we achieve that, the flying will slowly return. The thing that most worries me isn't the virus scaring people, its businesses realizing they don't need to do all of this business travel anymore. They are learning during this pandemic that they can continue business as usual without flying people across the country and the world. Those business meetings they used to do in person, are now being done in the comfort of their homes via teleconference . This is what would worry me. Business travel makes up a very significant portion of the passenger demand and from what I can tell, a lot of that isn't coming back.

Take a look at the real estate market right now. Prices are soaring in suburban america because so many people have been told that they will never have to return to the office, so they are leaving the cities and buying homes in the suburbs. Commercial establishments all over the country are going to let their leases lapse and continue from this point on with their workforce's working from home. I fear the business travel will follow this trend.
Many businesses have gone to that for the time being but if you look into it closer you’ll find that they are figuring out it just isn’t the same as in person. I think for the short term you’re right, they will work remotely. But it is hard to close the deal on that sale from FaceTime without the schmoozing at the golf course followed by a fancy dinner and drinks afterwards. They’ll make it work for now remotely until there is a treatment or a vaccine but I think they will go back to the in person stuff after we wipe this thing out with a vaccine or turn this into just a cold with some type of treatment, for the most part. We might lose some of the business travel but I don’t think all of it or even a majority of it.

from doing door to door sales at one point in my life, I can assure you closing the deal is much more effective in person than over a phone or a FaceTime type setting. It’s much easier to say no when you don’t have to look at them or when you know you can hang up right afterwards.
 

Flagship_dxer

Legacy Airline Dispatcher
Many businesses have gone to that for the time being but if you look into it closer you’ll find that they are figuring out it just isn’t the same as in person. I think for the short term you’re right, they will work remotely. But it is hard to close the deal on that sale from FaceTime without the schmoozing at the golf course followed by a fancy dinner and drinks afterwards. They’ll make it work for now remotely until there is a treatment or a vaccine but I think they will go back to the in person stuff after we wipe this thing out with a vaccine or turn this into just a cold with some type of treatment, for the most part. We might lose some of the business travel but I don’t think all of it or even a majority of it.

from doing door to door sales at one point in my life, I can assure you closing the deal is much more effective in person than over a phone or a FaceTime type setting. It’s much easier to say no when you don’t have to look at them or when you know you can hang up right afterwards.
Some are finding its cheaper to have workers stay at home than to maintain large office buildings. Others will look at the cost savings of doing business via zoom instead of paying for air travel. Business travel will return but to what degree and when won't be known probably until middle of next year assuming a vaccine is available and effective.
 

CF34-3B1

Well-Known Member
Right, they will certainly enjoy the cost savings by not having some of the expenses associated with business travel but like I said above, don’t think it will be permanent. There is no replacement for in person when it comes to sales. So even if you are saving a good bit, you need revenue and if you aren’t bringing enough in because your sales/business deals are suffering then at some point you don’t care about the air travel savings and you get out there and make some deals.
 
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