CLT "turn xxx THEN contact departure"

AAPalmTree

Well-Known Member
I was wondering if anyone can explain this? I recently heard of someone calling deaperture before on assigned heading and getting their wrist slapped. Any info? Why doesn't tower just hold on to you until they're ready for you to be off frequency?

This may or may not really grind my gears.
 

Crop Duster

E pluribus unum
I was wondering if anyone can explain this? I recently heard of someone calling deaperture before on assigned heading and getting their wrist slapped. Any info? Why doesn't tower just hold on to you until they're ready for you to be off frequency?

This may or may not really grind my gears.
Meh, Sounds like TRACON just ran out of coffee that morning.
 

learhawkerbe400

Well-Known Member
I was wondering if anyone can explain this? I recently heard of someone calling deaperture before on assigned heading and getting their wrist slapped. Any info? Why doesn't tower just hold on to you until they're ready for you to be off frequency?

This may or may not really grind my gears.
Laziness.
 

Beefy McGee

Well-Known Member
Sometimes it's "turn right 240 then contact departure", sometimes it's just "contact departure" while still on initial heading, and sometimes (like yesterday) it's "turn right 240 and during the turn contact departure".

I just try not to get yelled at by the lady on 126.4 on the ground when she gives runway crossing instructions and doesn't listen to or like the readback.
 

Cptnchia

Dissatisfied Customer
I just try not to get yelled at by the lady on 126.4 on the ground when she gives runway crossing instructions and doesn't listen to or like the readback.
Kinda like KATL:

"All traffic holding between the runways, answer with callsign only..."
 

learhawkerbe400

Well-Known Member
Reminds me of when I was ATL the other week and tower got mad at us. Early morning, clearance was an rnav sid. We're the only plane anywhere near the runway and they tell us to line up and wait. Then give us cleared for takeoff and at the middle marker fly heading xxx. I said unable we will need to look up the middle marker. They get pissy and just say fly runway heading.

Wtf bruh? This isn't 1980. I'm a child of the magenta and damn proud of it. What's this middle marker you speak of anyway?
 

pwttogfk

Well-Known Member
Thread drift: I love when you get a full route clearance complete with SID that's nothing like what you filed, mash it into the FMS, and immediately after departure get radar vectors followed by direct to a fix on your originally filed route. I'm looking at you, SoCal...
 

T/O w/FSII

Well-Known Member
Thread drift: I love when you get a full route clearance complete with SID that's nothing like what you filed, mash it into the FMS, and immediately after departure get radar vectors followed by direct to a fix on your originally filed route. I'm looking at you, SoCal...
Every. Damn. Time.
 

csmith_txatc

Well-Known Member
I'll see if I can help with the heading, then departure issue. At CLT we have a noise abatement restriction that requires departures to fly 2 miles when departing 18L or 18C before we are able to turn you. We have a waiver that allows us to depart side-by-side for that 2 miles IMC or VMC and then issue turns to gain standard separation (i.e. at least 15 degree divergence) from the parallel departure. Also, we have an Arrival/Departure Window (ADW) that requires us to have aircraft physically rolling on 18C before the 23 arrival crosses a point 1.8 miles from the 23 threshold. Factor in RWY crossings to get arrivals from 18R to the ramp, any 18C arrivals inbound, and any other nonroutine tasks going on and there isn't time to talk to all of those on time every time. We issue the turn Then contact departure so that we can essentially get 2 transmissions done in one. We need to have you on the TWR frequency until the turn to heading 240 to comply with our waiver, at which point we have our divergence from the 18L departure, and you can then talk to departure. If you are issued just a heading and contact departure without the, Then, it's because either there isn't a 18L departure next to you or the 18L departure has already been turned. Hope that clears up some of the questions. As far as getting yelled at by "the lady on 126.4", I can't help there. Some people just need work on their people skills, and that goes on both sides of the frequency.
 

msmspilot

Well-Known Member
I'll see if I can help with the heading, then departure issue. At CLT we have a noise abatement restriction that requires departures to fly 2 miles when departing 18L or 18C before we are able to turn you. We have a waiver that allows us to depart side-by-side for that 2 miles IMC or VMC and then issue turns to gain standard separation (i.e. at least 15 degree divergence) from the parallel departure. Also, we have an Arrival/Departure Window (ADW) that requires us to have aircraft physically rolling on 18C before the 23 arrival crosses a point 1.8 miles from the 23 threshold. Factor in RWY crossings to get arrivals from 18R to the ramp, any 18C arrivals inbound, and any other nonroutine tasks going on and there isn't time to talk to all of those on time every time. We issue the turn Then contact departure so that we can essentially get 2 transmissions done in one. We need to have you on the TWR frequency until the turn to heading 240 to comply with our waiver, at which point we have our divergence from the 18L departure, and you can then talk to departure. If you are issued just a heading and contact departure without the, Then, it's because either there isn't a 18L departure next to you or the 18L departure has already been turned. Hope that clears up some of the questions. As far as getting yelled at by "the lady on 126.4", I can't help there. Some people just need work on their people skills, and that goes on both sides of the frequency.
I appreciate this. It does help with understanding why CLT does some of what CLT does.

Now why can't we get the center runway, then everyone behind us asking gets it??!?! (j/k. well, mostly. :))
 

Beefy McGee

Well-Known Member
I'll see if I can help with the heading, then departure issue. At CLT we have a noise abatement restriction that requires departures to fly 2 miles when departing 18L or 18C before we are able to turn you. We have a waiver that allows us to depart side-by-side for that 2 miles IMC or VMC and then issue turns to gain standard separation (i.e. at least 15 degree divergence) from the parallel departure. Also, we have an Arrival/Departure Window (ADW) that requires us to have aircraft physically rolling on 18C before the 23 arrival crosses a point 1.8 miles from the 23 threshold. Factor in RWY crossings to get arrivals from 18R to the ramp, any 18C arrivals inbound, and any other nonroutine tasks going on and there isn't time to talk to all of those on time every time. We issue the turn Then contact departure so that we can essentially get 2 transmissions done in one. We need to have you on the TWR frequency until the turn to heading 240 to comply with our waiver, at which point we have our divergence from the 18L departure, and you can then talk to departure. If you are issued just a heading and contact departure without the, Then, it's because either there isn't a 18L departure next to you or the 18L departure has already been turned. Hope that clears up some of the questions. As far as getting yelled at by "the lady on 126.4", I can't help there. Some people just need work on their people skills, and that goes on both sides of the frequency.
Good info. Thanks!
 

csmith_txatc

Well-Known Member
I appreciate this. It does help with understanding why CLT does some of what CLT does.

Now why can't we get the center runway, then everyone behind us asking gets it??!?! (j/k. well, mostly. :))
My personal reasons for approving or disapproving are based on traffic at the time of the request. If I have departures waiting to go on 18C, if there is a significant backup of 18R arrivals waiting to cross 18C to the ramp, or if the final is starting to run to 18C already then it's almost always going to be an "unable." Sometimes my hand is forced when the spacing on the 18R final is collapsing and the options are to breakout the 18R arrival to go fly 50 miles to get back in line or slide over to 18C if I'm able to do so.
 

msmspilot

Well-Known Member
My personal reasons for approving or disapproving are based on traffic at the time of the request. If I have departures waiting to go on 18C, if there is a significant backup of 18R arrivals waiting to cross 18C to the ramp, or if the final is starting to run to 18C already then it's almost always going to be an "unable." Sometimes my hand is forced when the spacing on the 18R final is collapsing and the options are to breakout the 18R arrival to go fly 50 miles to get back in line or slide over to 18C if I'm able to do so.
I understand that there are times when we can't see the traffic that's interfering with the request we make. But it's a little frustrating when we get "Unable 36/18C for departures" and we get down there and there is no one in line and no one taking off. Especially on go home day! Can we set up a code word for go home day? :D

With that said, I even recognize that we as pilots don't have the charts showing all the gates the controllers have to hit to have another airplane operate in that area.
 

A80TRACON

Well-Known Member
Back when I was there between 93-99 they had Sunday church noise procedures for non Stage 3 aircraft. Also had school noise procedures and the FK's couldn't do the RWY 23 back course.

Sounds like things have improved slightly.
 

Screaming_Emu

Great and Unmatched Wisdom
Thread drift: I love when you get a full route clearance complete with SID that's nothing like what you filed, mash it into the FMS, and immediately after departure get radar vectors followed by direct to a fix on your originally filed route. I'm looking at you, SoCal...
Shanghai is the absolute worst. They don't tell you which arrival to expect until it's time to fly it, you have to find whatever strange fix it is where your arrival ends to find the transition to the approach. THEN as soon as you have your poo in a pile they pull you off it.

Plus meanwhile you're having to convert stuff from feet into meters.
 
Top