Citation Type Rating

AV8R_N8

Well-Known Member
Hello. I am considering getting a type rating for a Cessna Citation, for the experience, and also to make me more marketable to the airlines. I was looking at the program that ATP has. Its a 4 day program. 1st day is ground, 2nd is ground, sim, & flight. 3rd is ground, sim, & flight. and 4th is a checkride. They send you Training material before you start for you to go over. Being where I am at right now. Commercial Multi-Engine Instrument Pilot, with about 550 hours, and 100 hours multi, will it be pretty difficult to do such a rating without any previous Turbine time? I am pretty determined in aviation, and when it comes to learning something new, I could do it all day and all night. But the thing that concerns me the most is stepping up from a Beechcraft Duchess that cruises at about 140 knots straight to a Cessna Citation which I am assuming has an approach speed somewhere close to 140 knots. Anyone have any comments, tips? Thanks in advance.
 

averyrm

Well-Known Member
Unless you have a few hundred hours in a citation (and at least 1200 total), the type won't do you any good. Chances are, people will think "550 hours and a type? This guy has too much money on his hands." You can probably do it, Citations are like baby-jets and not very difficult to fly. The thing is spending x ammount of dollars (7k, 14k, whatever) isn't going to make people look at you more. Use it to get a CFII, MEI and build time. You can't even get a regular 135 job until you have 1200 hours. That's a long ways away.

Point is - save your money. Make your employer pay for your type when you get hired. There isn't a shortcut here.

BTW - Yeah, it'd be cool. I think it'd be a lot of fun to get a Citation type. But I don't think it's $7,000 cool
 

Jason

Well-Known Member
Agreed. A type rating is virtually useless unless you have time in type to back it up.

Also - consider this scenario - thousands of pilots on the street - you say you want to get a Citation(a corporate/charter airplane) type to make yourself more marketable to the airlines - the airline interviewer looks at your resume and says "Hmmmm....low time and he already has a Citation type, if he spent that much money for a Citation type at such a low time he must really want to fly corporate - next...." and in the can your resume goes. I'm not saying that WILL happen but some interviewers look at things like that.

Another word of caution - type ratings aren't about learning how to fly an airplane - they're about learning how to manage the systems on that airplane - you're flying skills already have to be pretty sharp. First - you can get a 140 knots out of a BE76??? Way to go - I couldn't ever get one going that fast! Ours were'nt in the best in the fleet - haha. Second, you might be the best pilot in the world but just make sure you realize that flying a Duchess on a single engine approach to commercial standards is ALOT different than flying a single engine approach in a jet to ATP standards. I think you'll find it more difficult than you think.

If you have the extra money laying around go for it!! It would be cool - and let us know how it goes - I've often wondered about that program. Just don't go and do it thinking it's gonna' be your golden ticket to an airline job because honestly it probably won't be. At least look around and see if you can find a similar program in an airline airplane - ERJ, CRJ, etc but those are stupidly complicated airplanes so that may not be the best course of action anyway.

Jason
 

NJA_Capt

Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
...stepping up from a Beechcraft Duchess that cruises at about 140 knots straight to a Cessna Citation which I am assuming has an approach speed somewhere close to 140 knots.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with the posters above. I wouldn't bother with it a this stage of the game.
Another thing, some people think Flight Safety (The real one) course is like drinking from a fire hose, and it covers two weeks. I wonder what minimal knowledge these "quick schools" pass along to get you through in 4 days? I considered doing the same thing years ago and passed on it. You only need a type to be PIC. No one is going to hire a 550 hr PIC anyway, and it doesn't do any good while you're a SIC.

Also, I presume ATP uses a Ce500. The landing speeds for a C500 are between 89Kts and 108kts(7500#-11,350#). Not much more than the Be76. As a comparison, the Citation X even has a Vref (at light weight) of 115 Kts.
 

AV8R_N8

Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone for the responses. I guess I will just have to try and find turbine time by getting hired somehow. I do have a possible job. My uncle has a close friend that owns a Gulfstream. If he hired me to be one of his FO, what would I have to do to get trained to be a FO in a gulfstream? Would I just start flying with the captain? Again thanks for the responses.
 

Jason

Well-Known Member
You're probably not going to like this post and I hope this doesn't come off as being too negative but......the thought of a 500 hour pilot in a Citation worries me - the thought of a 500 hour pilot in a Gulfstream scares the he!! out of me. To be SIC technically all you would have to do is basically do 3 T/O's and landings as sole manipulator plus a few other small tasks - not much - it's spelled out in 61.something. Now - if you're talking reality - an insurance company is going to require you to go to some sort of formal training like Flight Safety or Simuflite - that is IF the insurance company will even sign off on you which - to be brutally honest - is a long shot at best. If your friend is the owner of the airplane he probably doesn't fully understand what the insurance company requirements would consist of - before you get your hopes up too high go talk to the Captain you'd be working for and see if he has an idea of what the insurance mins are going to be. I know from experience that the insurance mins for our Challenger are something like 3,000 total to be SIC and the premiums are outrageous - I can't imagine what they would to try and insure a lower time guy.

Jason
 

Buzo

Well-Known Member
I would just relax and build some time. Things will happen. I was hired this past spring by a commuter to fly a B1900 with under 1100tt and only 42 multi. I had no turbine experience, and hadn't flown a twin in almost 5 months. Let a company pay for your training, flying is expensive, don't spend any more money than you have to.
 

viper548

Well-Known Member
I got the same wild hare you did. I was in a turbine aircraft class through Utah Valley State College and that really added fuel to the fire. I'm military, so I wanted to use my VA benefeits, so it had to be VA approved. I also wanted to FLY a plane, not a simulator. I found Flight Crew Systems, in Carlsbad, CA (Near San Diego). They offered three courses. 3 hrs-4500, 5 hrs- 7500, 7.5 hrs 10,700 (pt 141) +500 checkride for all courses. I did the 7.5 hour course, all the flight time is in the airplane!!!!!! You will also be able to ride along when other students do their training, so you can see how it's done. You may be able to simulate tougher emergencies in a simulator, but face it, at 500 hrs you're not gonna be the PIC of a jet, so I'd reccomend enjoying it and flying the plane. I highly reccomend Flight Crew Systems. I went with 380 hrs TT and 60 hrs ME. It can be done by a low time pilot and it's a lot of fun. They also offer a type rating in the CE-525 (Citation Jet, CJ1, CJ2) I also did that one a few months later. Slightly more expensive, but much newer airplane with glass cockpit.
Everyone else is right, a type rating (or two in my case) does nothing for a low time pilot, but it sure looks cool on the pilot's license and is a GREAT learning experience. Their website is www.flightcrewsystems.com
 

gay_pilot18

New Member
"averyrm" said:


You can't even get a regular 135 job until you have 1200 hours. That's a long ways away.


I have heard that when the industry gets better the regionals ie Comair, ASA,SkyWest and others will lower there minimums from 1200-1500tt to anywhere from 500-700 to maybe 1000tt.

Is this true?

A friend of mine at my flight school is 27 has his pvt. and is working on his instrument rating now and has a goal to be flying for 135 by like 30.

If he needs 1200-1500 hrs tt. to ever really be considered not sure he is gonna make it into a regional jet by age 30 except as a passenger.
 

Eagle

New Member
[ QUOTE ]
You can't even get a regular 135 job until you have 1200 hours. That's a long ways away.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can not get a job as PIC until 1200 hrs, many guys have been hired with under 1200 as SIC. ( I had 1000 + - hrs when I got hired, and only 27 multi)
 

gay_pilot18

New Member
Yeah thanks he is just concerned he said the other day about getting in the cockpit around age 30-31 as an F/O so he was worried that since he is 27 and only has like 115 hrs. and only a Private pilots license that it might take him longer then he wants to get to the 135 minimums.

Because his master plan is to be an f/o with a regional at or before 30. I think he said upgrade time is 2-4 yrs. then he wants to go mainline. And he said that he didn't want to be in his late 30's just getting into a mainline jet.

I guess he started out kinda late and he is always telling me that it's so very good that I started so very young.
 
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