ChemTrail fleet, pilots needed? - the real story this time

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Qutch

Question everything
#1
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It's starting to look like the ChemTrail myth isn't completely a myth. . Test research flights have begun. . Fleets and pilot hiring quals are being studied. .
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It's a Classified Program and concept that the Government officially denies, but that may be about to change. . Fearing a public backlash and mass demonstrations, the Gov has until recently insisted that it's merely a "conspiracy theory". . That policy of Official Denial is being debated now, with partial Disclosure being contemplated. . There are 4 areas of research and/or allegations regarding ChemTrails. . Some verifiable, some not so easy to verify. . #1) Planetary weather modification to combat climate change (i.e., global warming)
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Unthinkable? . Apparently not so unthinkable for Gov scientists and policy makers who fear catastrophic climate change. . In fact, the discussion goes all the way to the White House. . The current Government policy debate is: whether to tell, or not to tell the population about current research flights, testing and plans to deploy ChemTrail flights. . The Government's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory is one of the lead organizations in testing a PR campaign designed to test public sentiment. . The Environmental Defense Fund is another. . It's a complex story, with a lot of parts, but here's a start. . Forget the word "ChemTrail." . The Government's term for that (in their planetary climate change, GeoEngineering program) is "Solar Radiation Management" flights (SRM). .

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SRM Test Education Campaign run by EDF- (short version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7oK7wmP2CFk#t=242s
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Chinese Version (full version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCn99YYafXw&feature=youtu.be
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http://www.srmgi.org/about-srmgi/ "....it (GeoEngineering) may be the only option to reduce temperatures quickly in the event of a climate emergency."

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Qutch

Question everything
#2
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Some Government officials, including some of Obama's science advisors, fear that we may already have tripped over the carbon dioxide tipping point, and that a global climate meltdown is imminent. . All sides of the Disclosure debate agree that the only quick and inexpensive method to cool the planet will be SRM flights with fleets of aircraft. . The Government's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in CA. is one of the lead organizations in testing a PR campaign designed to gauge public sentiment. .
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Meet Dr. Jane C.S. Long, Associate Director for energy and environment at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.
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Short Version
"The Ships have been designed"..... "A Fleet of airplanes the size of SW Airlines."
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Short Version
Julio Freidmann PHd., Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory...
'Be afraid, be very afraid'......"that should scare you all"
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Full Lecture - "Put fleets of planes in the air" ..."We've got to begin a public dialogue about this."
http://fora.tv/2010/11/07/Wonderfest_2010_Dare_We_Try_to_Engineer_Earths_Climate . Flora Science TV. (first 38 mins. only - SRM)

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Qutch

Question everything
#4
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Meet Professor David Keith - Canada Research Chair in Energy and the Environment at the University of Calgary. .
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuZFkD56S-k&feature=player_detailpage#t=83s . Dr. David Keith at (American Association for the Advancement of Science Conference. (AAAS) . You'll hear him mention Aurora Flight Sciences in the lecture. see below
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Aurora Flight's report on chemical delivery options by aircraft.
http://people.ucalgary.ca/~keith/Misc/AuroraGeoReport.pdf
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http://aurora.aero/
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKoAAlrME5M . NASA Video talks about Aurora Flight Sciences' association with the Gov and GeoEngineering research aims.

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ppragman

Direct Yeska
#5
No need, when the climate really starts to heat up, the inevitable shortages of food, water, and materials will quickly precipitate global nuclear war. The ash and dust will dramatically alter our albedo, resulting in cooler temperatures - thus negating the need for chemtrail planes.
 

braunpilot

What day is it?
#9
Getting slightly back on topic, this all boils down to Global Warming in short, and after watching the video where she described that after a volcano eruption there are two notable changes that develop after each event. One is that there is a four degree drop in temperatures (Wonder if it's world wide or just locally?) and second that there is a drought. If I have this concept correct, we see lower temperatures due to the fact that the atmosphere actually reflects more solar radiation (The whole reason for weather.) and an increase in drought due to the lack of heating.

While I still don't understand why we don't just plant more trees to help, we could actually spread sulfur into the upper atmosphere to help reflect the solar radiation, but this will in turn possibly create a drought over most of the world, not to mention the fact that we lose our blue sky and it just start turning white. Seems to me though, that if we turn out atmosphere white, won't that cause more light refraction to be created and thus we would actually warm the temperatures below the spreading of sulfur?

Maybe I'm just out there on this one, it makes sense in my head but I've been up for almost 18 hours.

For me the biggest thing is not how do we cool the atmosphere but how do we go about making sure we don't have a drought. With a drought we lose production of food. We are already going through two feet of the water table in KS and NE each year with rain only putting inches back each year. So if we find a way to cool the temperatures we have to find a way to put water back into the water table around the world. Seems that we would be better off desalinating the water of the oceans of the world, piping that water around each country and then putting that water back into the water tables.

I know this seems like just another chemtrail thread but it brings up many points that most meteorologist have been taught early on, we just don't have a clue in how to cool the earth and we should probably just let nature take it's course, we do oh so well with stopping flooding each year why stop now. Just because the government calls them Solar Radiation Monitoring flights means that just like in a political campaign, they develop another term so that people don't freak out when it is discussed. Chemtrails usually means that people will not care, or if they do they are 'out there'. SRM allows a more fruitful discussion to take place.

(Boris, Pay & QOL are all TBD based upon the scab list at that time....:sarcasm:)
 

inigo88

Composite-lover
#11
Braunpilot, I posted this in the joke chemtrails thread over in the lav with that same Lawrence Livermore video Qutch sent me. But I think you'll find it applicable because I brought up a lot of the same questions you did. Quoted below (unless mods just want to move it):

I don't think anyone here believes that every airliner or GA plane has hidden chemical spray guns in their static wicks (I saw that in a thread mshunter or Dough posted a while back, and the guy who wrote that was nuts).

Another chemtrail myth I've heard is that secret fuel additives are being added to Jet A to use the commercial airline fleet as unwilling aerial applicators. I don't buy it, because there are simply too many chemists with access to laboratories that could go down to the airport, buy a gallon of Jet A for $5 and throw it in a spectrometer and get a nice graph of the fuel's chemical composition. But like every good myth this one has a factual basis, because the military does have a history of using some pretty nefarious chemicals as fuel additives when it was tactically advantageous.

A classic example of this was on my favorite airplane, the Lockheed A-12/SR-71 Blackbird. The Blackbird was way ahead of its time in that its blended nose "chines" and streamlined shape reduced the aircraft's radar signature, a good 20 years or so before the F-117 and stealth technology became mainstream. However the SR-71's exhaust plume was so large that it had its own radar signature! The Skunk Work's solution was to introduce an additive to the Blackbird's JP-7 fuel called A-50, which was literally a radioactive isotope of the element cesium. The idea was that the radioactive cesium would ionize the exhaust gases, which would scatter incoming electromagnetic radiation from the enemy SAM site's radar and reduce the radar cross-section of the exhaust. While the A-50 additive was eventually discontinued (I think they realized the Blackbird wasn't stealthy enough to evade Soviet radar entirely but it was a moot point, since at mach 3 it outran every missile that was ever shot at it :) ), there is strong historical consensus that Beale AFB, Northern California (and everywhere else the Blackbird flew) was salted with radioactive cesium for a significant period of time.

All of that aside, of all the chemtrail conspiracy theories (MKULTRA type mind control, chemical/biological weapon testing on civilians, etc. etc.) there is really only one that I have a hard time dismissing - that is, the idea that the government is doing damage control to try and discreetly combat global climate change.

To understand the mechanism behind how climate change could be combated in the short term, I'm going to quote a picture from my post back in the "Global Warming" thread from way back. This "quick and dirty" solution is the most popular theory at the moment, since we have no idea how to get the CO2 back out of the upper atmosphere in any sort of timely fashion.



In the Global Warming thread I focused on trying to explain how "Greenhouse Effect" works, and how the incoming solar radiation gets absorbed and trapped inside and can't escape the roof of the greenhouse (the atmosphere in this analogy). However if you look at the picture above you'll notice the yellow lines showing that some solar radiation bounces off the upper atmosphere and clouds (just as some light is reflected off the glass roof of a greenhouse before it can get inside). The clouds are a key part, because lighter colored material tends to reflect solar radiation better while dark absorbs it the most (go outside wearing all black on a hot day, or ask a glider pilot how good the thermals are when they fly over a giant asphalt parking lot that's been heated by the sun all day - both are examples of an idea in physics called a "Black Body," which absorbs all incoming electromagnetic radiation). So then by process of elimination, the other end of the spectrum is that something white or light-colored will make a better reflector.

So we can't can't change the fact that there is a glass roof on our greenhouse (i.e. we can't get the CO2 out of the atmosphere that's already there), and we can't change the fact that the heat that's trapped inside can't get out. So what can we do to cool it down? The option that's being considered is to take the clear glass roof of the greenhouse and make it opaque! The whiter and cloudier we make the glass, the more light will get reflected away - which means less light gets inside and less heat will be radiated out of the ground.

It turns out that we can measure the opacity of the atmosphere too (just like the glass roof of a greenhouse), the average value of which is called the atmosphere's albedo. Earth has a relatively low albedo, because there's not a lot of cloud cover, lots of blue sky and tons of light gets in from the sun to heat the Earth's surface and generate weather (page 1 of any aviation weather book). In contrast, planets like Venus or Saturn's moon Titan have very high albedos, because they have such thick cloud cover that a lot of incoming solar radiation is reflected by their upper atmospheres before it ever reaches the surface. And the Earth has seen localized versions of this phenomena as well in the form of volcanic eruptions, and the resultant ash cloud which spreads throughout the upper atmosphere.

Armed with the above knowledge, there is an entirely new form of Geoengineering research going on called Solar Radiation Management (SRM), and a lot of academics both at government labs and public universities talking about how to reverse global warming. And the most popular theory?

Cloud-seed the upper atmosphere with aerially applied chemicals, and increase the earth's albedo by simulating a volcanic ash cloud that covers the entire planet and blocks out the sun.

Sounds nuts, right?

I had heard of this originally from an old college professor I had a couple years ago, but several days ago Qutch PM'ed me this video:

This is Jane C.S. Long, Associate Director for Energy & Environment at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, giving a powerpoint presentation on exactly that plan - calling it an emergency climate crisis response plan:


If you don't have time to watch a 5 minute video (but somehow made it this long reading this post) here's the cliff notes version:

She proposes simulating a worldwide volcanic eruption by aerially spraying Sulfuric Acid into the stratosphere. At 1:17 she proposes aerial application aircraft types including the Lockheed Skunk Works P-791 hybrid airship, the U-2 and a fleet of 200 continuously flying Bombardier aircraft (presumably CRJs, but she mispronounced the name as bombadier). She concedes this is not a great solution, considering the consequences will mean world wide sulfuric acid rain, extremely modified weather patterns and droughts and never getting to see the sun again. Now you see why I call it the "Quick and Dirty" way.

Ultimately, given the fact that this type of SRM research is being government funded at LLNL and discussed so openly in public, I would be very curious to know what other government agencies have their hats in the ring, and what research isn't being so willfully volunteered? The government doesn't exactly have a stellar track record of asking permission from the American people before engaging in high risk research. The anecdote that Oppenheimer and/or Fermi had some slight concerns prior to the Trinity Test of the first atomic bomb that the resulting explosion could potentially ignite the entire atmosphere and kill everyone on the planet - but probably wouldn't - comes to mind. :)

But as you guys can see, the cloud seeding and chemtrail ideas may not be all that far off from one another.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
#12
Cloud seeding = ChemTrails to the public.....
What they're talking about here isn't cloud seeding. There are quite a few private companies that already do that in West Texas and then the rockies and other places in the winter. Cloud seeding is designed to force the moisture out of the clouds - make it rain. This is putting reflective particulates into the atmosphere in order to reduce the amount of solar radiation we receive.
 

efly

Well-Known Member
#13
What they're talking about here isn't cloud seeding. There are quite a few private companies that already do that in West Texas and then the rockies and other places in the winter. Cloud seeding is designed to force the moisture out of the clouds - make it rain. This is putting reflective particulates into the atmosphere in order to reduce the amount of solar radiation we receive.
I'm sorry I commented too early, didnt read first.... cloud seeding is done in California as well.
 

Qutch

Question everything
#14
I'm sorry I commented too early, didnt read first.... cloud seeding is done in California as well.
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An honest acknowledgement. . This has nothing to do with cloud seeding. . In fact, they're planning to make the clouds themselves on these flights
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And that was part of my reason for posting on this slippery subject. . Many of us had assumed that there was nothing new or interesting underlying these ChemTrail reports. . No reason to waste much time reading them, the Government assured us that it was all just a hoax. . So when we hear these ChemTrail reports, we've been conditioned to dismiss them all as cloud seeding operations or normal contrails, or dismiss the speakers themselves as lunatic anti-government conspiracy theorists. . In fact, as pilots we're so embarrassed to be caught talking seriously about "Chemtrails" that we avoid discussing the subject in public. . Worse yet, we even ridicule it. .We've attached a stigma to this subject, and others. . Might be nice if we could get past that .

They're called Solar Radiation Management Flights. . And there is much much more to this story. .

Keep an open mind.
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Gonzo

Well-Known Member
#15
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They're called Solar Radiation Management Flights. . And there is much much more to this story.
Qutch nothing you posted show the flights are happening yet. Yes, there is a lot of talk of how planes can be used in GeoEngineering and there has been some one off testing (HARP) but as far as I know, know is doing flights in the open yet and no one has proof the flights are taking place. Michael J. Murphy work could show proof of GeoEngineering but the fact he doesn't tells me he can't.
 

z987k

Well-Known Member
#16
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An honest acknowledgement. . This has nothing to do with cloud seeding. . In fact, they're planning to make the clouds themselves on these flights
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And that was part of my reason for posting on this slippery subject. . Many of us had assumed that there was nothing new or interesting underlying these ChemTrail reports. . No reason to waste much time reading them, the Government assured us that it was all just a hoax. . So when we hear these ChemTrail reports, we've been conditioned to dismiss them all as cloud seeding operations or normal contrails, or dismiss the speakers themselves as lunatic anti-government conspiracy theorists. . In fact, as pilots we're so embarrassed to be caught talking seriously about "Chemtrails" that we avoid discussing the subject in public. . Worse yet, we even ridicule it. .We've attached a stigma to this subject, and others. . Might be nice if we could get past that .

They're called Solar Radiation Management Flights. . And there is much much more to this story. .

Keep an open mind.
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What you described are not "chem trailz" as the nutjobs think of them. What you are describing would be like setting off lots of volcanoes. No mind controlling aerosols.
 

braunpilot

What day is it?
#17
Qutch nothing you posted show the flights are happening yet. Yes, there is a lot of talk of how planes can be used in GeoEngineering and there has been some one off testing (HARP) but as far as I know, know is doing flights in the open yet and no one has proof the flights are taking place. Michael J. Murphy work could show proof of GeoEngineering but the fact he doesn't tells me he can't.
There is nothing, that we know of, that shows the flights are happening. You are probably correct, I don't even know where to start looking for that information. There is just one thing that worries me, we have no control over other countries doing this now. China is a very large place with a very large population that cares more about themselves, interesting considering their ancient history, but they will do whatever they feel is necessary to save their home.

What you described are not "chem trailz" as the nutjobs think of them. What you are describing would be like setting off lots of volcanoes. No mind controlling aerosols.
Yes, I agree it's just like multiple volcanic eruptions, in fact if either of two specific volcanoes erupted we would have nuclear winter, period. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. We are done and the fact the seed banks in the Alps and around the world all of a sudden have a market. Those volcanoes are Krakatau, and Anak Krakatau (or Child of Krakatau). If they erupt, everything changes, the ash clouds get caught in the worlds jet streams and spreads. My wife, a former meteorology major in college, told me that every simulation they have run on those specific volcanoes have resulted in massive environmental change (think 'The Day After Tomorrow'). Basically what they would be doing through sulfur in the upper atmosphere.

But if they think that we spread chemtrails, what else do they think will be in these types of Geo-engineering?
 
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